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By schlockrod - 11 Years Ago
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I'm new to the y-block group, was a previous Ford FE guy. My 57 T-Bird, which is new to me as of Nov of 2013, is making a slight "knocking" noise (when hot) and it became noticeable after I discovered both rocker arm shafts were not quite lined up as the drain tubes on both sides were not present. I got two drain tubes and holders, aligned the shafts on both sides and now notice this knocking noise. Experience tells me now that I now have less oil pressure due to oil now flowing into and back out of shafts could my main bearings or connecting rod bearings be worn? Any thoughts?
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By 2721955meteor - 11 Years Ago
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block off the rocker return tubes,ther was a good post showing taping the stand with drain tubesand modifieing the capscrew so it aligns the oil holes as well as blocking the return oil. i am a fan of oil presure at the rockers. ther will be some that disagree. you may want some positiv valve seals on the intakes.smoke will tell you. on my 292 had to make the stand wher oil enters flat,i cut a grove with a flatened drill bit an instaled a o ring,as oil was squirting onto int valve.posibly the noise is worn rockers.
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By schlockrod - 11 Years Ago
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Thank you for your reply, the noise is NOT from the rockers, had the valve covers off when running..............
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By paul2748 - 11 Years Ago
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In the past, what sounded like a rod knock was actually the mounting tabs on the flex plate for the converter. You didn't say whether your car is a three speed or an automatic but if an auto check this.
This was supposedly rectified with the 57 flexplate, but you never know what has been installed over the years.
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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Welcome to a great online Forum. Great because of the knowledgeable individuals who unselfishly try to help each other.
_______________________
Noises can be tough...
Thoughts:
1) I like Paul's suggestion a lot! IF you have an automatic trans. check the flexplate bolts...
2) I like an oil pressure gauge to tell me what the oil pressure is at idle...
3) I like to use a stethoscope type listening rod for isolating the location of noises... 4) Consider disconnecting one spark plug at a time to see If the noise goes away when a particular cylinder is 'dead'...
Hope this helps.  Let us know.
Regards,
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By PF Arcand - 11 Years Ago
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Backing up for a minute..were both sides of the engine getting adequate oil to the rockers? If that's o.k., it's been suggested you could have a broken Flex plate, my 57 car had this problem. Some times they knock quite badly. If that's not the problem, as also has been suggested, you could hook up a manual oil guage, even temporarily to see if you have good pressure. Then check further the previously suggested items.. good luck.
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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AND, IF the oil pressure is LOW, it could be the oil pump. IF the by-pass valve is malfunctioning, the output pressure could be low...
______________________
Regarding the previous suggestion of modifying the rockerarm shafts for pressurized oiling... If you dig through the Forum Archives, there is a lot of debate on this subject.
Personally, for my street and highway application, I like the oil directed by the overflow tubes. On one cylinder bank the overflow oil is directed toward the distributor and cam gear and the machined bore for the end of the distributor shaft. On the other cylinder bank the overflow oil is directed toward the timing gear set.
Again, one guy's opinion. IF I were racing, I WOULD pressurize the shafts. For info on doing this,
- Google Tim McMaster's web site at yblockguy.comOn the Home page that opens, in the center of the page between the animation of a y-block running and the picture of Tim McMaster with his truck... - toggle the 7th topic from the top of the list, 'Tech. Tips' - on the page that opens, toggle, 'Rocker Arm Assembly Rebuild' look at the pictures and play the 6+ minute how-to step-by-step video
Hope this helps. |
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By schlockrod - 11 Years Ago
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Guys, all good information. Here's where I stand on this issue. Yes I have a Fordomatic. As I said in the beginning, it only made this "sound" when the car was fully warmed up and sitting idle. Now, before all your suggestions came in, I changed the oil filter and added a quart of Rislone oil treatment, the thick stuff. I took the drain tubes on both sides off the valve stands and shimmed or blocked off half of the passage ways in the tubes to reduce flow (increased pressure) and reinstalled. It is now NOT doing it or at least I ran it to hot temperature and I did not notice the noise. That doesn't mean I fixed it as such, I need to drive it more and see. Based on this so far, wouldn't this eliminate the flex plate problem mentioned by a few? Still open to comments, thanks guys.
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By paul2748 - 11 Years Ago
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If the noise is gone by what you did, I would say it eliminates the flex plate issue.
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By DryLakesRacer - 11 Years Ago
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Sent a PM. I would stop driving it now. Get the pan off and check all of the rod bearings. A few hours and a pan gasket set is worth the peace of mind.....
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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If it is something like a rod knock and that "fixed" it, it is time for a rebuild, before it gets worse.
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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schlockrod (5/17/2014)
Yes I have a Fordomatic. As I said in the beginning, it only made this "sound" when the car was fully warmed up and sitting idle. Now, before all your suggestions came in, I changed the oil filter and added a quart of Rislone oil treatment, the thick stuff. It is now NOT doing it or at least I ran it to hot temperature and I did not notice the noise. That doesn't mean I fixed it as such, I need to drive it more and see. Based on this so far, wouldn't this eliminate the flex plate problem mentioned by a few?
I'm with Paul. IF what you've done has 'eliminated' the noise, the transmission flexplate is most likely out of consideration as the source.
I'm also with DryLakes Racer and Charlie. The Rislone oil treatment is basically an oil additive that increases the oil's viscosity. There are other products like STP that also will do the same thing. Probably, the Rislone oil treatment has MASKED the engine problem. I would recommend again changing the oil filter and put the correct weight oil in the engine. (Lord knows what the person selling you the car had in the oil pan in desiring to sell the car! ) IF you've still got the noise once the engine has warmed up with the correct oil in the base, consider doing what I suggested previously.
- attach an oil pressure gauge to determine the oil pressure at idle when the engine is at normal operating temperature. IF it is low at idle, it could be clearances within the oil pump (wear) or a stuck by-pass valve in the oil pump OR bearing clearances in the bottom end of the engine being excessive. - disconnect one spark plug at a time and see if the noise goes away. If the noise goes away when a particular cylinder is rendered 'dead', that is likely a cylinder that has a problem with a connecting rod bearing.
Personally, I would NOT drive the car to see if the noise gets better. IF you throw a connecting rod, it's BIG trouble. 312 blocks are out there, but you don't want to have to buy one...
Hope this helps.
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By schlockrod - 11 Years Ago
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Just to be clear, you think its possibly rod bearings, not main bearing? I can certainly check both with the pan off.
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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IF the noise stays the same as you disable one spark plug at a time, I would suspect the main bearings. IF the noise stops when a particular cylinder is disabled, I would suspect a connecting rod bearing.
Y-blocks have a strong bottom end. I would be more expectant of a rod bearing problem than a main bearing problem.
The above said, I'm a hobbyist. There are Forum members who have seen the inside of far more y-blocks than I have and who have raced y-blocks that I never have. Hopefully, the Ted Eatons, John Mummerts, Tim McMasters, Hoosier Hurricanes, Glen Hendersons, Frank (ReBop) Rices, Gary Burnettes, Harry Huttons and OTHERS on this Forum will weigh in on this. There are a large number of VERY knowledgeable, very experienced engine builders on this site.
(Listing names is a mistake, Charlie Brown! With your OLD mind, you're BOUND to leave off SEVERAL somebody's names that you KNOW you should have listed!)
Hope this helps. |
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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This has NOTHING to do with the noise that you are presently investigating.
HOWEVER, it is a very common problem that is unique to the '55, '56, and '57 'Bird motors. The engine crankshaft damper on the 'Bird is unlike any of those found on the y-block passenger car or truck applications. Behind the pulleys on the damper is a steel 'donut' mounted on a neoprene sleeve.
The neoprene gets hard with age and engine heat and allows the 'donut' to slip, moving toward the timing chain cover. When viewed from above, or even from the side, it appears that there is no interference. That is, the 'donut' seemingly has not moved back enough to contact anything that it shouldn't. However, if you can observe the 'donut' at its lower side rear edge, you may see that the lower edge is potentially just touching the front steel engine support that is attached to the timing chain cover. SOMETIMES, you'll get a random tweet from the 'donut' brushing the curve of the front engine support at idle.
The 'donut' can be re-vulcanized in proper location and the damper re-balanced if you encounter this problem. It's an alternative to buying a new unit and costs less to have done.
I'm sure that you're thrilled with all the information we're sharing with you.  |
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By schlockrod - 11 Years Ago
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Could you elaborate alittle regarding the flexplate issue please...........
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By pegleg - 11 Years Ago
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The flex plates crack and noise follows ! Re your noise problem: get a real oil pressure gage hooked up and see what the actual pressures are. Then you'll know instead of having to guess.
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