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By Kennykiwi - 11 Years Ago
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I've just got my 292 back together after 18 months. No.2 was resleeved and a light hone for the rest. 3 new pistons and new rings for all. Cam was reground. new water pump, oil pump and fuel pump. Original 2 bbl carb rebuilt, put a modified electronic distributor from a windsor and new coil. Heads were crack tested and were OK. Block was hot tanked and crack tested OK. Used original rocker shafts and arms but had them thoroughly cleaned first. The motor had been seized and sitting for about 7 or eight years.
It has definitely been a journey to get this far but it is not over yet. Once I figured out the wiring issues it fired into life but after running it for 17 minutes it died. I had it up to 3500rpm to break in the camshaft. Once I got it going I did not want to switch it off for the camshafts sake. It wash running rough and I was using an old set of HT leads which I am going to replace because I suspect it wasn't firing on number 1.
I'm happy it ran, but unhappy that there are some major issues with gaskets not sealing. I only put gasket cement on the head side of the intake gaskets, but fuel was leaking out at the right rear so I will need to fix this. More worrying though, is that steam/water was escaping from between the Left rear head and block.
I'm gonna have to pull the head off so I'm thinking warped head although this was checked by the engine reconditioner when he crack tested it. maybe the bolts?? They were properly torqued and I'm sure their lengths are correct. I did not use sealant on the bolts - should I have done this? Can I reuse the head gasket once I start reassembling it? I can't see any signs of water in the oil, or oil in water.
Will I get away with the 17 minutes of camshaft breakin time? Are these all issues others have experienced if so what solutions did others do?
I also have issues with the carb and fuel pump leaking but I can sort these out later. |
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By 2721955meteor - 11 Years Ago
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retorqu the heads,are you sure the right bolts and did you clean the threads in the block. take them out 1 at a time and use a moly based lube on the threads. then retorque at 5lbs over spec. if you used moley past on cam when you assembled it will be. ok. big issues is to have the engine run correctly on initial start- up. damage happens when some are firing and others you have fuel washing the cylinders down. with stock springs new cam and new lifters, proper initial lube 10.30 oil cams do not need much of a breaking. blocks have plenty of oil flying around(rods ar drilled with squirt holes) so with light oil not much mor 1 can do. just my opinion.
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By Kennykiwi - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks, I'll be checking it tonight.
I'm trying to be calm and philosophical about it.
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By Ted - 11 Years Ago
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3500 rpms is on the extreme side for engine rpm during cam break-in. 2000-2500 rpms is a better rpm range to target for. While most camshaft break-in periods are twenty minutes, if there is a cam lobe/tappet failure happening, that starts right away. It may take twenty minutes for enough wear to take place to pick up on that but in many instances, 5-10 minutes of running will indicate if the cam has started to go away. In your case, simply check the valve lash before restarting. If there are no large discrepancies, then you are likely good to go.
As far as the leaky head gaskets, then insure that the two ‘long’ bolts for each head went into the top row at the ends. You didn’t mention if the head gaskets were steel shim or composition. I’ve reused composition gaskets before if they did not ‘tear’ upon disassembly and simply sprayed them with WD-40 before reusing. Sealer is preferred on both sides of steel shim gaskets while composition gaskets typically do not require any sealer.
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By snowcone - 11 Years Ago
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You said the head guy checked the heads but didn't machine them.
How did he check them?
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By Kennykiwi - 11 Years Ago
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snowcone (6/16/2014)
You said the head guy checked the heads but didn't machine them.
How did he check them?
His comment was that they were Ok, so I took his word for it.
I do trust him, he has a good reputation.
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By Kennykiwi - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted, I'm using Felpro composition gaskets. I will check the clearance as you say, that's a good point before I pull anything apart.
I'll definitely be checking the head bolt sizes again.
Cheers |
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By steinauge - 11 Years Ago
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I reckon I would check the heads and the block deck with a straightedge and feeler gauge.the Fel-pro composition head gaskets will put up with a bit more out of flat than the steel shim gaskets but about .005" is all you can tolerate in any case.As far as the fuel leak around the intake I wonder if the intake is warped(does happen) or if the heads have been surfaced before and the intake doesnt fit now?
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By aussiebill - 11 Years Ago
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Kennykiwi (6/16/2014)
snowcone (6/16/2014)
You said the head guy checked the heads but didn't machine them.
How did he check them? His comment was that they were Ok, so I took his word for it.
I do trust him, he has a good reputation.
Sounds like to me, right or wrong kenny, you have little expeirence in engine building and i would suggest get some help reassembling top end. Assembly is important to precheck, recheck then assemble components then recheck again!
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By Kennykiwi - 11 Years Ago
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Yes I must confess I am a novice on the Y block, but have done a few head gaskets on jap motors with no issues, but I did check things. However, I now have the left side head off and realised that this was the side that had been resleeved on number 7 (i did say number 2 previously, my bad) and this side has been planed. Should I have applied anything to this fresh surface? I measured the head bolt lengths and they are correct (long = 4.32inch, the 3 short ones = 4.1inch) but I think I will replace these with new ones. I put a straight edge across the head and it seems OK to me, can barely slide a piece of paper under it. and the straight edge is perfect on the deck of the block. I will take the head down to the local engine shop to double check it. There was oil in the threaded holes of both head bolts at each end, so it's possible that this is a cause, although I did clean these before assembly.
The Felpro head gasket is intact, but covered in oil and water residue, what's the best way to clean it up if I am going to reuse it?
Before taking the head off I also checked the tappet clearance and they are good at .020. The up and down movement of each valve looks to be good as well. So I hope that means the cam is OK.
As far as the intake manifold goes, I can see where the fuel has leaked in several places so looks like I need to have it planed flat.
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By 2721955meteor - 11 Years Ago
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oil in thread holes could be part of the issue,they do not go threw to water,unless 1 does not get all the oil out. that could cause a crack. get a new gasket, surface the head, spray high tack on the gasket when cleand,run a botom tap down all the threads,things will then be good. the last 2 i did threads had lots of crap towards the bottom which will efect the torque. also lube the threads and under side of capscrew head. torque values ar when every thing is new. if you replace the capscrews be sure they are grade 8 cat have the right lengthe for end 1s, but had to trim the center 3 as well as the short 1s.good luck
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By Kennykiwi - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks for the advice guys, I have ordered new gaskets and was almost ready to take the manifold and head in for planing, BUT then I spoke to a local retired mechanic and explained what had happened and the outcome is that I bought some copper spray for the head gasket and some anaerobic gasket sealer for the intake manifold. I cleaned up the head gasket with petrol and let it dry, I also cleaned up the surface on the block and head. I thoroughly cleaned the bolt holes, sprayed the copper (many coats) onto both sides of the head gasket.
When cleaning the intake on the heads ready for a new intake gaskets I realised that I had not positioned the gasket properly and there was a gap, (scratched my head as to why I did not see this during assembly) Check and recheck as you say Bill. There appears to be two types of intake gasket in the engine gasket set and the second one I am now using is slightly different, it fits better with no chance of making the same mistake again. I applied a thin coat of anaerobic sealer to both sides of the new intake gasket.
I bought new spark plug leads and spark plugs, I even opened the top of my rebuilt 2 barrel carb to check that the float was not stuck. I reassembled it and torqued the head to 80ftlb, I did use a small amount of moly on each head bolt. I reused the old bolts, but I have a new set coming just incase any future issues.
I fired her up today and no more leaks, it sounds great, but I think I've got an issue with the carb as it is stalling after I rev it, or when I I hold it at 2000rpm, could a leaking baseplate gasket or carb spacer cause this?
I do need to check the timing as well. will need to get some advice/info on setting the carb/vacume/timing so that it idles and revs without stalling. That will be a job next weekend.
I decided that nothing ventured nothing gained, and either way I'm a bit wiser now.
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By 2721955meteor - 11 Years Ago
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you did well,if we are truthfull we have had some isues, you should be complimented in finding a old meckanic and folowed his advise.i am sure your problems are rectified and have fun driveing . cliff
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By Kennykiwi - 11 Years Ago
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2721955meteor (6/22/2014)
you did well,if we are truthfull we have had some isues, you should be complimented in finding a old meckanic and folowed his advise.i am sure your problems are rectified and have fun driveing . cliff
Thanks Cliff, there were a couple of other minor things I discovered, wooden spoon type things if you know what I mean. All I need now is the car to put the engine in. It's going into a 57 skyliner which I currently have stripped down to repair rust, suspension, steering, paint etc. I may even share a youtube clip in the near future.
Cheers Ken
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