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By Richard - 11 Years Ago
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Is there a thread showing how to install lifters with the crank in place and not pulling the engine.
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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My recollection is that there is mention of installing new lifters and a cam in a y-block with the engine still in the vehicle in an earlier thread here on the Forum.
I THINK it was John "Hoosier Hurricane" who indicated that he had done it once. Whoever it was, while technically possible, they clearly indicated that they would NEVER do it again.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 11 Years Ago
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Yes, Charlie, that was me. I used the factory supplied tools for the job, and it still took longer than if I'd pulled the engine. I have to qualify that, I have a hoist and trolley permanently installed in my garage, so pulling the engine is no big deal to me. Even using the factory tools, I managed to dislodge the rear cam plug, and it fell out on the test drive. Ended up pulling the engine to fix that.
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By Richard - 11 Years Ago
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Well thats encouraging. John, Can you send me the link of your experience. |
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By Glen Henderson - 11 Years Ago
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I would not even consider it and I am a old Ford mechanic not quite as old as John, but I have a lot of miles on my odometer. Pulling the engine is the only way to go, save you time in the long run.
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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In the '57 Ford Car and Thunderbird Shop Manual, in Chapter 3, Section 7, beginning on page 1-72 and continuing through page 1-74 is the step-by-step procedure for 'Camshaft Replacement (Engine In Chassis)' for all 8 cylinder engines.
To illustrate how helpful this direction manual is, what follows is the in-depth procedure for 'Tappet Replacement' as found in the second column on page 1-73:
"Remove and install one tappet at a time through the bottom of the block. A flexible-type holding tool can be used for this operation. As each tappet is installed, secure it in the up position."______________________________
NOTE: In the directions prior to this step, the manual explained how to raise the tappets clear of the camshaft lobes and secure them with modified spring type wooden clothes pins or modified window regulator spring clips prior to 'carefully removing the camshaft by pulling it toward the front of the engine' while 'exercising the necessary caution to avoid damaging the camshaft bearings'.
______________________________
Richard, you've been a member of the Forum for some four years. As a fellow y-block enthusiast, your participation with us is valued. Changing a y-block camshaft and lifters with the engine in the vehicle chassis could be a life altering event. Don't do this to yourself! It could destroy your enjoyment of a hobby you have put time and effort into.
Regards,
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 11 Years Ago
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Richard:
I don't think I detailed the operation, only stating it was time consuming and aggravating, even with the borrowed tool kit. As Charlie stated, I won't do it again with the engine in the car.
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By Richard - 11 Years Ago
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I got an engine host lined up. However I gotta try it on at least one lifter.
Regarding pulling the engine: can I disconnect the tranny bolts leaving it in place then slide the engine forward. The trains is a T85 w/od and is very heavy.
Thanks for all you imputes |
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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Hmmmm... on the '54 Fords I recall quite a bit of room in front of the engine with the radiator out...
With the hoist, you may find one of the adjustable leveling mechanisms helpful in controlling the engine angle as you move the engine forward...
I'm thinking it might be easier to detach the bellhousing from the block rather than the tranny from the bellhousing... Guiding the front snout of the tranny out of the bellhousing could be harder to do than just out of the pilot bearing and clutch and pressure plate assembly...
Yeah, that T-85 od was 149 pounds when I was younger...
You'll get it! 
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By miker - 11 Years Ago
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This a link to the lifting device I think Charlie has in mind. And fwiw, I'm in the process of changing a cam, and the engine is just ready to pull. I wouldn't even attempt this in the car..
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/kti-63423/overview/
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By Richard - 11 Years Ago
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Engine is coming out for sure. Collateral damage is four lifters and the cam. Clay Smith Cam and lifters. 1.6 dove rockers. Photos on the way may be someone can tell what happened, I think it just sat too long, oil 50 weight Valvoline Racing and zdp or what ever was added. This was all new stuff, however the engine was sitting for a long time, part of that time the rockers where in place. I am giving Comp Cams a call in the morning the advert for their lifters sounded good, maybe they have a cam to go with it. Thanks Charlie, and yes I will get it. Maybe buy the hoisting addition.
One more final concern is could I have bent valves to go along with this party and how can I tell. All the springs are sitting proud at this point, seems like the same height. |
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By miker - 11 Years Ago
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There was just a discussion here on Dove rockers, you might run a search. I don't remember it being a good report.
I just ordered a new cam from Mummert (one lobe gone after several years and low miles), and it came in a Clay Smith box. He uses a different lifter. Ted Eaton has an article on lifter failure, and sitting under pressure was one of the causes. I think its on his site at Eaton Balancing, should be worth a read.
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By Richard - 11 Years Ago
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I got a call into John. I do not think its the cam or the lifters.
I did read the list of poo bahs on lifter failure. Also the Dove rockers. Thinking about Dove rockers, if some rockers are a different ratio how would that affect this problems and if so how do you measure the rocker ratio
Progress is happening, got the motor almost stripped of the ancillary devices, maybe ready for extraction on Monday. I have to keep the momentum going until the mill is on the engine stand.
Thanks again
Richard |
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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I re-visited the '57 Ford Car and Thunderbird Shop Manual. Part I, Chapter 3, Section 2 titled 'Engine Removal and Installation' has a thorough rundown (checklist) for pulling the engine without the transmission. Their procedure calls for disconnecting the transmission from the bellhousing, NOT the bellhousing from the engine block.
Perhaps there's something in putting the engine back in that I'm not thinking about. My experience has only been with pulling the engine and transmission together and putting them back in the same way.
I don't want to give bad advice. How about some other opinions on the best way to disconnect the engine and transmission for removing the engine only from those of you who have done it that way.
_________________________________ Richard, you may be able to rent that engine lifting accessory. Some of the automotive parts stores rent tools in my area. -And then there's the rental places that do nothing but rent tools and equipment. _________________________________ Hope this helps.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 11 Years Ago
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I always disconnrect the bellhousing from the engine now. Used to do it the other way, and getting the trans connected to the engine was a pain, the throwout bearing kept getting out of place or off the fork. With the trans already bolted to the bellhousing, the bearing is secure and not an issue. Also by parting them at the bellhousing/engine connection, the engine doesn't have to be pulled as far forward to separate them.
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By Ted - 11 Years Ago
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Based on the description of the collateral damage, pulling the engine out for a complete disassembly sounds prudent. Once the heads are off the engine, then the intake and exhaust ports can be filled with solvent and any leakage past the seats can be observed. If that checks out, then the valve springs can be removed at which point the straightness of the valve stems can be verified. You can also look at the piston tops for witness marks where the valves may have contacted the pistons but the intake valve can also hit the side of the cylinder at the top of the block which may not leave any marks.
If you have any pushrods rubbing within the pushrod holes in the heads, then that will force a premature camshaft/lifter failure. Just look at the pushrods for any wear marks where they might have been rubbing.
Here is the link to a past thread showing the lifter tool used to replace the lifters through the cam tunnel hole. Be sure to also look at the 2nd page of this particular thread.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost29355.aspx
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By Richard - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted,I think in my case like you suggest a complete tear down is in order. Push rods, I did notice a slight shiny ring around a few of the rods. I will check to see if they correspond to the worn lobs on the cam. Do you think its caused at all by the Dove Rockers: I thought I read that some have different ratios caused by quality control or lack there of. How can I check it. Lay them on my surface plate measure some point to another with a straight edge? Going to be a bit messy in my garage for a while. Richard |
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By Doug T - 11 Years Ago
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I have had a set of Dove 1.6 roller tip rocker arms for 15 years with no problems. BUT I made one critical change to them. They were factory drilled for oil to the push rod ball and valve roller but there was no provision to get oil to these holes. I made a little tool to chuck in a drill press and cut a shallow groove from one hole to the other in the bore. The groove goes under the oil hole in the shaft. This allows sufficient oil to flow from the rocker shaft to the holes lubing the whole valve train. Stock lifters have such a groove. I have heard that Dove rockers can bind on the shafts so be sure that the rockers on the shaft will turn freely. I pour a half pint of oil over each rocker assy before starting for the first time.
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By aussiebill - 11 Years Ago
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Doug T (8/5/2014)
I have had a set of Dove 1.6 roller tip rocker arms for 15 years with no problems. BUT I made one critical change to them. They were factory drilled for oil to the push rod ball and valve roller but there was no provision to get oil to these holes. I made a little tool to chuck in a drill press and cut a shallow groove from one hole to the other in the bore. The groove goes under the oil hole in the shaft. This allows sufficient oil to flow from the rocker shaft to the holes lubing the whole valve train. Stock lifters have such a groove. I have heard that Dove rockers can bind on the shafts so be sure that the rockers on the shaft will turn freely. I pour a half pint of oil over each rocker assy before starting for the first time.
Doug, i agree with lack of efficient oiling to the pushrod cups woith the dove rockers, i had 4 failures along those lines, Ted grinds angled groove in the rocker shafts to ensure oil flow in arms.
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