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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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I'm replacing the oil pan gasket this weekend on my 292. It has always leaked at the back by the rear main seal retainer area, and I'm pretty sure it's not the rear main seal.
The sealing surface of the retainer looks flat and flush with the block rail, and the pan holes aren't badly dimpled.
I'm looking for some advice on gasket sealer use. What kind seems to work well and so forth. I have a Best Gasket composite gasket on hand. Any advice is welcome!
Steve
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By charliemccraney - 10 Years Ago
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The threads in the aluminum rear main seal retainer need thread sealant. A very thin coat of black rtv should ensure a good seal for the gasket. That is a thin coat, not a thick bead - put a little on your gloved finger and spread it on with your finger.
In case you are not aware, thread sealant and RTV are not the same thing. Do not use RTV for thread sealant.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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Thanks for the reply. So you suggest spreading a thin coat of rtv on the block surfaces and the pan rail with a gasket in between?
Then once the pan is up there held lightly by a few bolts,apply the thread sealer to the studs on the retainer?
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By charliemccraney - 10 Years Ago
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Re the retainer studs, the sealer should go on the end of the stud that threads into the retainer to prevent oil from seeping past the threads.
I just noticed that you said the pan rail isn't badly dimpled. Make sure it is not at all dimpled. And when you tighten the bolts, do not use a torque wrench. Just pay attention to the gasket while you tighten them. You want to make sure it is being compressed but not squished out.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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I should be able to back the studs out then I guess if they wen't sealed before....
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Charlie is talking specifically about the two rear oil pan bolts that are centered above the rear seal retainer. The two threaded holes at this location are open to the crankcase if the factory studs have been removed. If the original threaded studs are now gone or have been removed and replaced without sealer, then use some kind of thread sealer on the threads of the stud/bolts that go back into those two holes.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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I don't know if mine are sealed or not. I guess they should just back out of there if I can get two nuts jammed on them. Then I can seal them.
This job has now expanded to replacing my gear type oil pump with the later gerotor style. I found one on Ebay. I've been considering this change over for quite a while since my gear pump is noisy as heck when cold.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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While I'm thinking about this...which is less awkward; fitting the oil pump first then jockeying the pick-up tube into the pump while the pan goes up or installing the pan first with the pick-up loosely installed then fitting the pump?
Can the pump drive and pick-up tube be maneuvered that way? If so. seems like it would e easier to put the pan on first....
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Steve (1/18/2015)
While I'm thinking about this...which is less awkward; fitting the oil pump first then jockeying the pick-up tube into the pump while the pan goes up or installing the pan first with the pick-up loosely installed then fitting the pump?
Can the pump drive and pick-up tube be maneuvered that way? If so. seems like it would e easier to put the pan on first....
On the engine stand, my preference is to mount the oil pump to the block and then jockey the oil pan in place while the oil tube is loose at the pan. In the car, I simply loosen both the oil tube nut at the oil pan and the back off the flange nut at the pump and then jockey the oil pump and distributor drive around as needed to remove and reinstall the oil pump.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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Right. Thanks Ted.
When I get my Ebay gerotor pump I'd like to check the tolerances. Presumably there are maximum clearances allowed between the inner and outer rotors, the outer rotor and the body and the end float.
Do you happen to know what these tolerances are?
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Steve (1/19/2015)
When I get my Ebay gerotor pump I'd like to check the tolerances. Presumably there are maximum clearances allowed between the inner and outer rotors, the outer rotor and the body and the end float.
Do you happen to know what these tolerances are?
The gerotor blueprint specs are buried within this older Y-Block Magazine article.
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2014/09/19/hi-volume-oil-pump-for-the-y/
Here is also a link to a past thread regarding oil pump blueprint specs on this site.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost22736.aspx
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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Perfect. Thanks so much.
I'll post up the numbers when I get it taken apart.
It will be interesting to compare the oil pressure between the two pumps. My gear type pump with 15w-40 rotella generates 60 psi hot on the freeway and about 20 psi at 750 rpm idle.
I'm not looking for more pressure, but hoping to reduce the pump noise and a bit of a rough idle after the oil pressure comes up after a hot re-start.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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The pump I received from Ebay checked out with tolerances all at the upper limit. The main bore inside the pump and the inside of the cover plate look quite good with no scoring.
So I went ahead and bought the Melling K56 repair kit which comes with the inner and outer rotors, the pressure relief spring and the gaskets.
The photo shows the condition of the outer rotor right out of the box. Obvious wear marks as if it has been run plus some pretty bad dings.
I was hoping to get the truck back on the road this weekend, but now have to wait for another kit to see if it's any better that the first one!
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Steve. Not sure where you got your Melling K-56 kit from but you’re running into a problem that’s becoming more frequent as time goes on. And that problem is the old parts being turned back into the stores in their new boxes by unscrupulous buyers who are simply turning the old parts back in for refund or credit as new parts not used. The contents within those boxes are obviously not being checked by the stores when being received back which has those used parts going back into stock and hence, being resold as new parts. It has become necessary to simply check many of the items as soon as they are received to insure that the new parts are indeed new.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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Ted-
Exactly my thought. I checked the contents in the store (Autozone !), and decided to hang on to this kit until I see the second one I ordered.
Hopefully the second one will contain all parts in new condition. I guess I could pick the best bits for the two sets, and then return the bad set as "defective".
As you imply though, there is a high likelihood that the kit containing the damaged parts will simply be put right back into circulation.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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A difference exists between the original outer rotor and the new Melling in that the new one lacks the cut-out in the outside surface.
Is the intent for this slot to allow an oil supply to be available between the inside surface of the pump body and the rotor?
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By steinauge - 10 Years Ago
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FWIW there is a permatex product called "the right stuff" that works better than ANY product I have ever used on pan gaskets.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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The pump is back together now, and the pan has no leak at all. I used a Best gasket and a sealer called "Dirko" which I used on the rebuild of a VW motor I just finished. It's a very good product, and the tube even comes with a small plastic tool that fits on the end that allows one to roll the tube up very tightly from the end. I coated the bottom of the block, and the pan rail with a thin coat. I put thread sealer on the main retainer studs too.
The oil pressure with my old gear pump using 15w-40 Rotella was 70 psi cold and 55-60 psi hot at 3,000 rpm, and was a noisy 20-25 psi hot at 700 rpm. With 10w-40 Bradd Penn oil the rotor pump puts out 60 psi cold and 50 psi hot at 3,000 rpm and about 15-20 psi hot at 700 rpm. The pump is quiet.
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Steve. I feel your pain with the noise generated from some of those spur gear oil pumps. The one on my ’55 Customline has a nice clicking noise at idle and if not knowing what it was, I’d be concerned. As it is, the engine has over a quarter of a million miles on it now and I’ve learned to live with it. But when the time comes, I will change it over to a gerotor style of oil pump.
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By Lord Gaga - 10 Years Ago
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Steve (1/25/2015)
A difference exists between the original outer rotor and the new Melling in that the new one lacks the cut-out in the outside surface. Is the intent for this slot to allow an oil supply to be available between the inside surface of the pump body and the rotor?
So, What about that slot?
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Lord Gaga (2/2/2015)
Steve (1/25/2015)
A difference exists between the original outer rotor and the new Melling in that the new one lacks the cut-out in the outside surface. Is the intent for this slot to allow an oil supply to be available between the inside surface of the pump body and the rotor? So, What about that slot?
That outer slot in the gerotor set baffles me too. The next time I talk to Verne Schumann, I’ll ask him about that slot and what his thoughts are on it. As he’s in the oil pump manufacturing business, he’ll come closer to knowing the right answer than most.
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By Steve - 10 Years Ago
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I took two old, original and presumably untouched gerotor pumps apart and both had the slotted outer rotor.
Both Melling repair kits I bought two weeks ago (and rejected because of gouges) had no slot.
I found a rebuilt pump on Ebay that I took apart to verify clearances, and it had a slotted outer rotor, so that's the one I used.
It seems like it would function a small reservoir of oil that rotates around the circumference of the body to keep it lubed (?).
Probably make little difference. My thought was that it's cheaper to manufacture them without the slot, so that's how they do it, though it
raises the question: Are they still really manufacturing these kits?
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By pegleg - 10 Years Ago
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Maybe to oil the outer wall and keep it cool?
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