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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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I finally got everything in to do my brake overhaul. So far I have the rear finished might need to do some shoe adjustment. But in doing the front I started on the driver side and after pulling the hub and drum assembly off on my '56 I decided to clean up the bearings and repack them. While I was cleaning out the old grease using my finger I noticed the rear bearing race was actually spinning as I was wiping the grease out. I tried to pull it out by hand and I couldn't.
So since I never ran into something like this before I wanted to ask could buying new bearing/race correct this issue, I don't know how long it was drove with the race spinning and I don't know what caused it. Or should I just buy a new drum/hub assembly.
I hate to buy a new bearing and race and it does the same thing but I also hate to spend $100 for a new drum/hub assembly when a bearing and race would fix this issue.
If someone can let me know in a timely manner that would be great as I have to order some replacement parts as well as some shoes as I didn't know if it needed them or not and it does on the front.
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By Oldmics - 10 Years Ago
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Sounds like the race has been spinning for a long enough period of time to wear the section of the hub that the race is pressed into.
That's why you cant pull it out.
IF you could get it out then if there is not too much slop you could "stake" the race by punching the hub area.
I have a feeling its too worn to stake. Consider replacing the assembly.
Oldmics
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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I am sure I could hammer it out, I was just using finger pressure to try to remove it just to see if the race was just out of shape. But now I get to have a fun time trying to find a new hub and drum cause for '56 year model the hub is staked to the drum so it was a single assembly. Macs sells just the drum but I haven't found a hub on their website might need to check elsewhere or just take a chance on installing a new race. Problem is it would be hard to tell if it started spinning again in a year or so.
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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Had a situation similar to what you've described. No replacement hub was available in a timely manner. Movement of the race in the hub had to be prevented to permit putting the vehicle back in service. In addition to what Oldmics suggested, I used a center punch to put a series of punch marks around the perimeter of the inside of the hub where the bearing race was to seat. The punch marks raised the metal surrounding the punched indentations. The replacement bearing race fit securely into the housing and rotation of the race was prevented.
Hope this helps. 
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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NoShortcuts (3/29/2015)
Had a situation similar to what you've described. No replacement hub was available in a timely manner. Movement of the race in the hub had to be prevented to permit putting the vehicle back in service. In addition to what Oldmics suggested, I used a center punch to put a series of punch marks around the perimeter of the inside of the hub where the bearing race was to seat. The punch marks raised the metal surrounding the punched indentations. The replacement bearing race fit securely into the housing and rotation of the race was prevented. Hope this helps.
That is what I am going to attempt to do. I checked all my sources and no one had a hub assembly. Not Macs, not Dennis, not Concours, not Larrys Tbirds, not even Rock Auto.
I did get a set of Bendix relined front brake shoes for $28.95 including s/h from Rock Auto with no core charge. Macs wanted $80 for theirs including a $40 core charge.
But what I will have to sleep on is I was thinking of trying a thin layer of some kind of adhesive and stake it so they work together. But I have to wait and see as I might luck out and the new race might fit tight and not spin.
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By Brodie55 - 10 Years Ago
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Punch pricks, knurling and the like are, at best a temporary repair. The bearing cup will spin again after a short period of time. If you have a decent electric motor repair shop nearby, call and ask if they can metal spray and mazchine the hub or try finding a good usedone.
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By slumlord444 - 10 Years Ago
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Possibly a good time to consider changing to disc brakes? That would give you new hubs. and much better brakes.
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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My vote goes for another hub assembly. While I haven’t tried to get a new one lately, if that fails then there are plenty of used ones available. You’ll simply need to advertise your needs on the various forums (this one included) as to exactly what you need. While there are some machining options that will fix what you have, the cost of doing so will make it 'cost prohibitive' if you are not in a position to do it yourself.
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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The current line I am following is I am cross referencing to see if the F100 trucks of the same year had the same brake hub assemblies. I found a guy selling two used drums for a passenger car on Ebay but after shipping the price is right at $200. I cant justify $200 for two used parts that is probably too thin to even turn to true them up.
If the F100 trucks of '56 used basically the same hubs and drums as the passenger cars then I think I can locate a hub for a truck way easier as they weren't staked to the drum like the passenger cars were.
As far as converting to disc brakes no. That is out of the question as I just bought $250 worth of factory brake parts and installed them already including the original style master cylinder. I am not going to throw money away like that and then spend another $700 to get everything needed to convert to disc brakes on a car I never planned on doing that to in the first place.
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By carl - 10 Years Ago
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Rusty I have some used hubs that came from a 56 Ford I parted out,i will take a look at them tomorrow to check there condition, if you think you might be interested in a used one Carl
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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Carl, thanks let me know how much you want for them as I might go ahead and purchase them anyways.
I was talking with my dad earlier about it as he is a retired blacksmith. He was telling me they staked a bearing race on his '55 scrubrolet truck and when he replaced the bearing and race years later it took half a day to hammer the old race out. I am thinking bout giving this route a try and if it doesn't work I will just go with swapping the hub out. I have been doing some long thinking on this and I think it would be cheaper to give this a try first.
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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Carl has been a member and a y-block guy for a long time. He seems to have a near endless stash of parts. I've never heard a complaint about any of the parts he has sold to members here and am completely happy with everything I received from him over the years. Prices are fair and parts are good. Chuck
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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Only thing I have to say, really? If you say a make other than Ford it auto corrects it in a bad childish way making fun of the name. Really? Is that how this forum is, childish like that cause I just noticed that and tried to correct it and I have to say if that is how the site is then I probably should just deactivate my account and stick with the other forums I use that don't act like this.
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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I've never used the real name of these cars on the forum but I'm not surprised they change. We have a running gag poking fun at the owners of GM stuff. God knows the y-block has been the brunt of many jokes for a lot of years. This is all basically good natured fun and not taken seriously. I'm sorry you take offense to this but I personally don't see it as anything more than a gag at the scruby scruberolet guys. You won't find a better site for y-block specific news, parts and answers to you y related questions. Chuck
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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All I have to say is brand loyalty to insulting other brands reguardless if people own multiple brands or not, I have grown out of that stage almost ten years ago. I find it very childish to be quite honest I did not know this site would basically force me to be what I view as childish by auto correcting my post in such a way that I view as childish.
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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I'm going back to the reason you wrote, Rusty.
The suggestions that Oldmics and Charlie Brown offered early in this thread were intended to keep you mobile. The use of a center punch to raise the surface of the hub to secure the race from turning was resorted to on a Saturday night after normal closing hours to enable a customer to get to work on Monday. I completely agree with Brodie55 and Ted regarding the ultimate way to appropriately resolve your problem. You need a replacement hub, and there's nothing wrong with a used one.
With the older cars, most of them did not see the mileage use that we put most vehicle through today before they are side-lined. Carl can likely fix you up with what you need. In my area it's still a little early to go scrounging in the old yards. IF you still need one come the end of April, write back. I suspect that finding a good hub with a brake drum having plenty of metal to permit a clean-up cut is doable.
I'd encourage you to not be put-off by the quips directed at Ford's principal competitor back-in-the day. What you've run into is buried in the software for the web site. It is not reflective of the caliber of the informational exchanges that have led me and others to regularly follow and actively participate here for a period of years.
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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That's understandable. I want a long term fix not a short term fix. I don't want to have it put out of my mind and then down the road it starts spinning again and cause a major failiure.
Now I did do some reading and I remembered from my days in tech class for auto repair we had a instructor that used JB weld to fix a hammered rod bearing and that engine at the time I was in the class was still running and had 42,000 miles put on it since the repair. With this in mind I did a search and I found a post on another forum pertaining to motorcycles. The guy wanted to fix his spun bearing race on his motorcycle to sell it but he wanted it to be a good fix for safety concerns. A guy told him he used Locktite Bearing Mount 680 formula on a spun rod bearing and it would be perfect for a bearing race.
I did a little more digging and found out that they make multiple formulas of the bearing mount compound intended for different jobs. The 680 was intended to fill voids up to 0.015" with a min shear strength of 2,800 PSI, and had a operating temperature of -65 to 300* F. I felt that was a little too low on the temp scale for my preference as I prefer large safety margins. So I saw they had a high temp/high strength version in the 620 which still fills voids up to 0.015" wth a shear strength of 3,800 PSI, and a operating temperature of -65 to 450* F. They also have one designed for repairing worn machinery parts that will fill voids up to 0.020". I have turned many brake rotors on the brake lathe at work and I always do each pass at 0.004" and that provides a very distinct ledge. I honestly don't believe this bearing has more than 0.015" play. I think I will spend the extra money and get the 620 high temp bearing mount compound and give it a try. I will also buy a replacement drum/hub assembly or two just to put up incase I run into this problem in the future.
This compound I think would be the way to go and be even better than trying to stake it alone. Just clean the hub out real good of all grease apply the compound on the bearing race hammer it into place sit the bearing on race and install the drum assembly and snugly tighten it up to hold the race in place as well as to keep the race square to the hub. I should be in business and with 3,800 PSI shear strength I don't think I would have to worry about it spinning again. Probably damage the hub trying to get it out if I ever have to replace the race.
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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re your hub try checking anoyher race,at tmes ther is a varianc in outer d.,if you got 1 oo1 larger and used locktight bearing mount it may work .but the centre punch idea is like a prev. post strictly sat night(hay wire)
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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2721955meteor, In the back of my mind I was wondering if a slightly too small race was installed. Still required to hammer in but not tight enough to keep from spinning. I have always seen oem vehicles from the 50s, 60s, and 70s using Timken brand bearings. This bearing doesn't say Timken but it does say made in the USA. I honestly don't think this is the case but I have seen strange things before in the auto industry.
I do think just as a precaution I would order a bottle of the Locktite bearing mount 620 just to have on hand for added piece of mind. I already been waiting 3 weeks to get this done due to wrong parts being sent down to this or the correct parts but made a little different and I messed them up during installation. I still have to call Larrys Thunderbird as the right front wheel cylinder that appeared correct is incorrect as it has a tiny bleeder screw that is angled at a 45 towards the front of the car when it should have been straight. Just a bunch of b.s. dealing with this kind of stuff when the items were purchased out of state.
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By Brodie55 - 10 Years Ago
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I have been selling Loctite for over 42 years and can attest that it is a good product and it does have its applications. Just remember it will not restore the cup's interference fit that Timken originally intended. The rule of thumb being .002 per inch of cup outside diameter.
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By DryLakesRacer - 10 Years Ago
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I, like Brodie, have used Loctite products for over 40 years in my work as an electrician in power generating plants. We have repaired countless electric motorsand other bearings by using the peen method and permanent Loctite. This repair was always successful. On severe damaged casting we would slightly grind on the outside of the new bearing roughing it up with X hash marks for extra holding for the product. Good Luck.
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By carl - 10 Years Ago
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Rusty_S85 (3/29/2015)
Carl, thanks let me know how much you want for them as I might go ahead and purchase them anyways. I was talking with my dad earlier about it as he is a retired blacksmith. He was telling me they staked a bearing race on his '55 scrubrolet truck and when he replaced the bearing and race years later it took half a day to hammer the old race out. I am thinking bout giving this route a try and if it doesn't work I will just go with swapping the hub out. I have been doing some long thinking on this and I think it would be cheaper to give this a try first. Rusty I have hubs,hubs with drums,hubs with drums and spindles so if you are interested my e mail is cl56vic@yahoo.com,the parts are used but good shape Carl
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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Thanks for all the replies and thanks for yours Carl. I already did a repair by dimpling the bearing race mount in the hub, first I ran a finger over to see if there was any lip from wear caused by the race spinning. There was a very faint lip but I did dimple the mount after cleaning and then wiped the mount down as well as the new race with acetone to remove all forms of oil from it and I applied green bearing mount Loctite 420, high temp high strength stuff as I wanted over kill.
By time I got it hammered into place which I did have to drive it all the way down I tried to spin the race and it wouldn't spin one bit. I did compare the races and it appears the race I removed was a hair smaller in diameter than the Timken one I installed. Might have been done once before in the past and the wrong race was used. But I think I have it fixed. I finished the brakes on it and the car stops pretty good for a car with no power brakes. Brake light switch is a little problematic, its not leaking and its 30+ years old but it works, I just need to use some needle nose pliers and crunch the female bullet connectors down some as they fit a little loose but the brake lights work.
Only thing I am left having to do before I go on the road would be three new tires and a radiator. Maybe buy another 5 quarts of VR1 20w50 oil and do an oil change I have been running the engine once a week and last time I checked the oil all the dried up metal particles in the head is in the oil so might be time to do that just to help clean the old engine out more.
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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what, 20/50 is this a high mile engine,i have owned maney yblocks never used aney thing heaveyer than 30,and only 30 as it was free. when the free ended used 10/30 with no failures. my present 57 hasun knowen miles with head rebuild and new gaskets. oil presure hot is25psi at600 idel 58psi at 2000 hot,plenty of oil going to rockers.
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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20w50 is not heavier than straight 30 weight. Its a 20 weight oil with the lubricating properties like a 50 weight oil when hot. That is what 20w50 is. Its like 10w30 is not 30 weight oil but actually 10 weight oil with the properties of 30 weight oil.
The owners manual states to use straight 30 weight in 75 degree or higher temperatures and thinner oil in cooler climates.
As far as being high mileage, as my signature says the engine has 155,000 miles on it.
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By charliemccraney - 10 Years Ago
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This is a good tool to determine the viscocity of an oil at a given temperature. Very useful for comparing different oils of the same grade but you need the specs of the oil, which is usually available from the manufacturer, and usually directly on their website. There can be quite a difference between same grade oils.
http://www.jiskoot.com/NetsiteCMS/pageid/356/Viscosity%20temp.html
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