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By RB - 10 Years Ago
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Vintage class is V-8 introduces 1954 or earlier (except Hemi's) Y Blocks should do really well.
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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Looks like a 239 could be done for this. They say the block must be from the "family" does that mean a 292 or 312 block could be used? Unlimited bore seems wide open. Chuck
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By RB - 10 Years Ago
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any size Y block is legal.. As long as the family came out 54 and before.. Notice that almost everything is unlimited in the vintage class...
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By RB - 10 Years Ago
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News Flash I just found out Jon Kaase is building a Y block for engine masters.. He has only won the competition like 5 times... This should be interesting... Pity the fool that trys to compete with anything but a Y block in Vintage class.
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By LordMrFord - 10 Years Ago
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RB (4/4/2015)
News Flash I just found out Jon Kaase is building a Y block for engine masters.. He has only won the competition like 5 times... This should be interesting... Pity the fool that trys to compete with anything but a Y block in Vintage class.
A late april fools day prank, I presume.
...or Kaase is bored to death to porting the inline intake runners.
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By RB - 10 Years Ago
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No joke He might be protesting some of the rules in other classes by running in Vintage.. Y block heads have a lot more flow than any of the other engines that could qualify. I assume he picked the engine he thought he could win with I am sure after studying John's heads and Ted's results he felt the Y Block is a winner
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By LordMrFord - 10 Years Ago
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RB (4/4/2015)
No joke He might be protesting some of the rules in other classes by running in Vintage.. Y block heads have a lot more flow than any of the other engines that could qualify. I assume he picked the engine he thought he could win with I am sure after studying John's heads and Ted's results he felt the Y Block is a winner
Might be interesting stuff coming out. 
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By Joe-JDC - 10 Years Ago
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It will be interesting to see what kind of header he comes up with and what intake manifold. I believe there is a lot of power to be gained in these two areas. Will be watching with interest for sure. Joe-JDC
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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I would love to see him get beat up by an Eaton motor. It's sort of like claim jumping. Guys a great engine builder but no Y's until he thought it would give him an advantage. Ted went up, knowing he couldn't win, and gave them some lessons. Chuck
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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How about a team including Ted E. and John M? That would really get something moving. Chuck
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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So the available high test wouldn't do it? That makes things a bit harder to find a "buyer". You must have all the basics covered for block etc. so is there anything us Po-Boys can do to help? I'm assuming aluminum heads are ok. Most of what I have left is in some heads and odd parts I'm sure they wouldn't really help. Once before I had mentioned doing a "raffle" for the EMC engine by selling tickets in advance to help raise the money. That might help. I'm here if I can be of any assistance. Chuck
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By Y block Billy - 10 Years Ago
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Now John is out of heads, "Right John Hint Hint Right"? so Kaase cant use his he is going to have to make his own Right? LOL more parts to the spectrum!
I imagine Geoff mummert will have to get working on another intake!
If anything I can do let me know, I have tons of blocks and parts, although a block would be the only thing you could probably use from my collection.Does John have any plans of entering his own???
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By John Mummert - 10 Years Ago
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Jon Kaase is definitely entering a Y-Block in the competition. I am definitely not entering the competition. Jon will get very creative and think outside the box as he always does which should make it a very interesting build. Sounds like he is leaning toward EFI and a custom manifold. Time will tell.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 10 Years Ago
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Damn, this is going to be very interesting.
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By Canadian Hot Rodder - 10 Years Ago
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I know John, Ted and Jerry are some of the pioneers for building HP Y-Blocks (among others), but in my opinion if a top builder like Jon Kaase has taken interest in the Y-Block the pioneers have been successful in making others take notice! Jon maybe stealing some of the glory, but all this means is more publicity for Ford's forgotten engine! More publicity means more aftermarket interest, more parts and possibly cheaper prices for performance parts.
Who knows, people like Jon may be able to convert the nay-sayers like Vic Edelbrock Jr. and convert them over to our following. Just saying.
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By John Mummert - 10 Years Ago
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I agree completely. All of the work and goodwill for the last 20 years starting with Bruce Young & y-Block Magazine until now has been to prove the potential of the Y-Block. This is the next step. One of the most creative builders is the country is willing to spend a lot of time and money on a Y-Block.We will learn a lot and the engine will get more respect. Be happy.
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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I am happy!
And... I also know the individuals that have made a real difference in what this hobbyist is now able to do with his bucket list project because of them and the unselfish exchange of information on this Forum and in Y-Block Magazine.
THANKS!
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By Y block Billy - 10 Years Ago
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Have you sold him a set of heads John? I see in the rules he can not make a billet set.
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By John Mummert - 10 Years Ago
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Wrong! We have not sold him a set of heads because we don't have any in stock, Right!. We have sent him a set of heads that had machining defects to inspect and play with. Obviously we have months to go before the competition and was more than happy to get an off pair.
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By Y block Billy - 10 Years Ago
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Even an off spec set of heads, he can probably do wonders with them, unless they were that bad!
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By Cliff - 10 Years Ago
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Hi, the motor for my dragster is using a sbc flex plate with a adapter, would this not work for for EMC?
Cliff
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By speedpro56 - 10 Years Ago
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I think it's great that Jon's is taking the Y Block on. It's another notch for our favorite engine and if a few more jump in it can't get much better than that!
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By DryLakesRacer - 10 Years Ago
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When I ran out of ways to make horsepower with my 7 port stock GMC 6 I went to Burns Stainless to have a header designed. It took them quite a time especially when you are working with single and shared exhaust ports. I used their design and ran 7 mph faster at El Mirage Dry lake and 5 mph at Bonneville. There is definately HP in exhaust systems and oil pans. This should be fun to watch.
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By John Mummert - 10 Years Ago
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Looking at the specs on that fuel I don't think any compression you want to run up 13.0:1 would be a problem. The specific gravity is light enough to be leaded. Most unleaded fuels do not get lighter than .74 scecific gravity. Its definitley not your typical unleaded formulation. It is also oxegynated. Some of the most powerful compression tolerant fuel vp sells is MR-12 oxegynated. The motor octane on that fuel is 87 and capable of sustaining 15.0:1 compression. Its a strange thing but M&R octane are tested at 600-900 rpm. Oxegynated fuels octane threshehold seems to rise faster than normal fuel as the rpm goes up.
Correction octane testing is done at a much lower rpm than I thought 600-900 rpm
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By John Mummert - 10 Years Ago
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Regarding SFI flywheel, the people who make the billet flywheels I sell make SFI wheels. I think the sticker would just be an additional cost.
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By tomfiii - 10 Years Ago
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charliemccraney (4/10/2015)
This set-up is due to the 4 valve heads"tuning each valve ,but other than that it is a standard tri-y header.
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By John Mummert - 10 Years Ago
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I think he's doing a better job at diverting reversion in the primary leg of the header. He also may have a better chance of getting a more even scavenge than typical 270-540 secondary scavenge of a tri-y.
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By jepito - 10 Years Ago
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Waiting to hear back if a steel spacer/ adapter for the flywheel is legal. Considering there aren't many sfi rated flywheels for vintage engines I would hope so.
If so I'll swap some things to make my engine legal if the accept my application.
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By yalincoln - 10 Years Ago
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say royce, i heard that Kasse is going to use a lincoln block? it came from a friend that races a mustang! i've seen him run 7.50's. can you check it out? thanks, wayne.
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By John Mummert - 10 Years Ago
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jepito (4/16/2015)
Waiting to hear back if a steel spacer/ adapter for the flywheel is legal. Considering there aren't many sfi rated flywheels for vintage engines I would hope so. If so i'll swap some things to make my engine legal if the accept my application.
Maybe I wasn't clear. If you need an SFI flywheel I can have one made.
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By jepito - 10 Years Ago
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John, sorry my phone cut out yesterday. The issue i have is that my crank trigger and flywheel adapter are the same piece. So if i cant run the adapter I would have to move/ remount the trigger to the front of the engine. That plus pulling off the Mechanical injection and reverting the water flow back to stock make is a lot to get it legal.
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By jepito - 10 Years Ago
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this is the response I got. I read it meaning a Flywheel adapter/ spacer would be legal. A custom Flywheel is not.
Hello, here's the official answer from the Engine Masters judge panel. It refers to a specific paragraph, so I've included the rules with the paragraphs numbered for reference.
306 -
IGNITION
Unlimited
Engines must be equipped with a complete ignition system
and related
ignition wiring designed for specified connection to the dyno.
Spark plug
wires must be commercially available.
Ignition components must be
mounted on a plate attached to the flywheel side
of the engine block.
327
- FLYWHEEL/FLEXPLATE
Any commercially available, unmodified SFI-certified
domestic manual STEEL
transmission flywheel mandatory. Flexplates prohibited.
Removal of starter
ring gear permitted.
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By jepito - 10 Years Ago
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that was my thought as well
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By John Mummert - 10 Years Ago
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Commercially available mean that anyone can get one made by a company that makes parts for the public. A 4" stroke billet crank for a Y Block is not a stocking part form any crank manufacturer. But anybody can call Crower, Moldex, Bryant and so on and get one made. That is commercially available. Many components for a performance Y Block falls under this category. Pistons, cams, pushrods, billet crankshafts etc. There is a difference between that and a stocking catalogue part..
The point of mandating SFI is a saftey issue. Using custom made non commercially available adapter to mount an SFI flywheel off of another engine seems like a more expensive, complicated, less safe method.
Many large companies get qualified buy SFI to manufacture parts to there spec.. Once they are qualified they can build any part and certify it themselves. They do not need to send every new part into SFI and have it certified.
Geoff Mummert
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By charliemccraney - 10 Years Ago
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Interesting. I wonder if Ted's previous entries had anything to do with his decision.
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By charliemccraney - 10 Years Ago
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That would be interesting to see. Kaase is clearly an excellent builder, but he probably lacks the experience specific to the engine that Ted has. What would be real cool is if he liked it so much and decided to start making parts.
I looked at their website. They're in Winder. That's like 40 minutes from me.
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By charliemccraney - 10 Years Ago
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Ted (4/7/2015)
The dual tube headers on the Coyote engine are a good example.
I had to check this out, http://www.stangtv.com/news/jon-kaase-explains-header-design-on-engine-masters-winner/. Still don't understand how they work.
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By charliemccraney - 10 Years Ago
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You know, given the nature of the class, it only makes sense that adapters should be permitted. I doubt sfi flywheels are available specifically for each engine allowed to run and if they can't be custom, then there is only one option, adapting one from another engine.
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Based on the conversations that are taking place on the SpeedTalk forums, it does appear that Jon Kaase is indeed serious about a Ford Y entry in the Vintage EMC class. While I am toying with the idea of a Y entry for this year’s EMC competition, I am budget constrained which means the engine must have a home or be easily repurposed once the competition is over. If one is to take the #1 spot in the competition, then the engine is going to be built specifically for this particular dyno competition. To optimize the engine for the VP101 fuel requirement, the compression ratio will be too low for a drag race only engine and likewise, too high for a pump gas engine. With Jon throwing his hat into the ring, the Y will definitely be well represented regardless of who else shows up.
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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MoonShadow (4/5/2015)
So the available high test wouldn't do it? That makes things a bit harder to find a "buyer".
Here’s the spec sheet for the VP101 fuel that will be used at the EMC for the vintage engines. In my case, the MON number (97) is the number which the engine would be built around.
Specification Sheet: VP101
(Typical Values)
Specific Gravity: .713 @ 60°F
Color: Orange
Motor Octane: 97
R+M/2: 101
RON: 105
RVP: 6.5
Oxygenated: Yes
Oxidation Stability (min.) 1440+
Distillation:
10% evap @ 144°F
50% evap @ 208°F
90% evap @ 211°F
E.P. @ 250°F
Availability: Sealed Drums
Rev 03/13
The VP101 fuel falls between pump gasoline and a real racing fuel. As mentioned earlier, to optimize an engine for this fuel simply makes it a tough sell. In looking through my parts selection, there are enough pieces here to build a nice 540 HP pump gasoline Y and still have an engine that can be repurposed after the competition. One of the items that is going to be the most difficult to get is going to be the SFI flywheel. In the previous competitions, I used a Y crankshaft that had a FE crankshaft flange which simplified the flywheel selection. The crankshaft I currently have here does have the Y crankshaft flange so I’ll be looking at remachining an existing SFI flywheel from another application to fit the Y engine if I cannot find a ready to go flywheel that is commercially available.
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Having seen what Jon Kasse has done in the past with any engine, there’s no doubt in my mind that Jon will be quite successful with a Y entry. I’ve had some very good discussions with him in the past and he takes a very different approach to getting power from the engines he works on. Those different approaches obviously work quite well. Jon does manage to exploit those loopholes in the rules that are ultimately closed up the following year so he does push the envelope with his engine builds. The dual tube headers on the Coyote engine are a good example.
With someone of Jon’s caliber using the Ford Y as the basis as a EMC engine build, this potentially opens the door to some other Y parts being produced. A new big bore block and reasonably priced stroker crankshafts becoming commercially available would be at the top of my own list.
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Cliff (4/7/2015)
Hi, the motor for my dragster is using a sbc flex plate with a adapter, would this not work for for EMC?
Must be a SFI approved standard transmission flywheel for the UNOH dyno hookup. While I have the options here on my own dyno to use flexplates in certain cases, these are not approved for the EMC competition.
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