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By lostdogcustoms - 10 Years Ago
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So things went bad yesterday. I have a a 292 that at some point was rebuilt, was running great until yesterday.
I am driving along, not goosing it or anything just, cruising. Halfway up a hill there is a pop and it goes dead. In fact I didn't know the engine died at first i thought it popped out of gear. Tried to turn it over, it turned over fine then it but would not start. I'll skip to the chase rather than explain all other troubleshooting. It turns out that the distributor shaft was no longer spinning when as I turned the engine over. It also seems the that housing spun a bit and dented the firewall with the advance canister. Two and half hours later I am on my way home in a tow truck. I have not gotten into it much, but here are the facts.
1. The engine turns over,
2. I pulled the valve covers, (understanding that if i broke the timing chain or cam, the valves were already done for from trying to start it on the side of the road.) and turned it over, all of the valves move. that says to me that it isnt the timing chain and if i broke the cam it is all the way at the end?
3. The distributor shaft would turn by hand, but only the normal amount, i guess it is the amount the mechanical advance plates allow.
4. the distributor did not want to come out on the side of the road, i could not rotate the housing or pull it out. by the time i got it home and turned it over to check the valves i could turn the housing just a little bit.
So it seems like I broke it pretty bad. I would like to try to get the distibutor as there will clearly be evidence of what happened either by a stripped gear, or something broken near the oil pump spade part. Then with a flashlight i guess i could see if the gear on the camshaft is turning or not, or if it is stripped or whatever. I know in many many ways the dammage is done and I will deal with it, however if there are thoughts or advice I would love to hear it. I would hate to cause more dammage while pulling the distributor out, but i am thinking that still has to be step one. I dont recall but i dont think there will be anything to be learned by pulling the intake a valley cover, there is no access to see the distributor and cam gear ...right? she had been runnin like a top...
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By charliemccraney - 10 Years Ago
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You can see a portion of the distributor shaft and cam gear with the valley removed.
Like you said, at this point the damage is done, so I don't think you can hurt anything by getting the distributor out to see what has happened. You just need to dig in and investigate.
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By miker - 10 Years Ago
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I'm thinking the dizzy seized, then broke the shaft. That's why it turned to the firewall. You'd still be able to turn the advance plate mechanism. But it has to come out as Charlie said so cross your fingers,and hope it was the in the housing, and the oil pump drive is ok. It's not uncommon to have a problem pulling the dizzy if it's been a while since its been out.
Good luck.
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By lostdogcustoms - 10 Years Ago
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Thanks fellas. I will try to get into it tonight. If the distributor wont come out, I guess i ll pull the intake to see if that reveals anything. Fingers are always crossed.
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By pintoplumber - 10 Years Ago
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You mentioned an oil pump spade. Do you know if the oil pump drive is a hex shaft or is it a tang drive, has like a screwdriver like blade at each end? The word spade makes me think it might be a 239 or 256.
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By lostdogcustoms - 10 Years Ago
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I am sure the block is a 292, and I am sure the distributor is a 57....but I do not recall what type that has
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By lostdogcustoms - 10 Years Ago
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so...well ... i am confused. I got the distributor out, I had to pull off the advance cam and spin it out. The gear is still pinned on it. The shaft seems a little bent...but not crazy, but it will not spin. The cam gear is still spinning as it should when i turn the car over. I cannot make it move by poking at it with a screw driver, it does not seem to spin freely,or want to move side to side. The teeth on both the distributor and cam gears seem just fine.
it seems to me that something should be really broken because the distributor will not spin....however the motor turned over as if nothing were wrong at all with the non spinning distributor engaged or i assume it. However, I had to spin the distributor out, further suggesting that the cam gear is fine/not spinning free. ... maybe it is. I had a friend suggest, that the dist gear would likely shear the pin before the cam broke....that seems like wishful thinking. is there anything to do but shrug my shoulders and get a new distributor and see what happens?
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By miker - 10 Years Ago
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I think you got lucky. The shaft/bushing (bearing) froze, turned it out of time till it quit running, and then either broke, locked up whatever. Someone with more knowledge than me will have to speculate about the oil drive hex rod, but I'll bet it's ok, too.
The spiral cut on the gear means it always rotates going in or out. Likewise getting the hex shaft started. One of the reasons it's so easy to be a tooth off when replacing the dizzy. The cam gear is pretty tough, I'd be surprised if you hurt it.
The tooth count on the gear will tell you if it a 239/256, but if it's a hex into the dizzy, I think it's a 272/292/312.
Someone will chime in with the cost effective replacement distributor, or run a search. It's on here.
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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Check out the hole in the base of the distributor shaft. If it froze it may have twisted the drive rod and damaged either the shaft of the rod. I would also pull the oil pump and check the rod and its socket in the pump. I wouldn't be surprised If one end or the other is damaged. When you have the distributor cap off for tune ups or whatever under the rotor in the top of the shaft there should be a little fiber pad. Put a few drops of oil on it. Chuck
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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first step is remove the oil pump,most liklet some thing went threw it. it is easey to remove, andeasey to remove the cover of the pump. do not replace the dist untill you find the cause,as it is the engine will most likley be ok as it stoped but rolling over with no dist means no oil flow
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By Daniel Jessup - 10 Years Ago
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2721955meteor (5/5/2015)
first step is remove the oil pump,most liklet some thing went threw it. it is easey to remove, andeasey to remove the cover of the pump. do not replace the dist untill you find the cause,as it is the engine will most likley be ok as it stoped but rolling over with no dist means no oil flow
My vote here is to follow this advice on your oil pump. Did you get a visual on the oil pump drive rod? If so, why not try to take a 1/4" socket and see if you can spin the oil pump gear and get oil pressure. With what your distributor just did with a lock up, I would be concerned what it might have done to the shaft. It may be ok, it may not. With what an oil pump drive rod will cost as opposed to rebuilding an engine that locks up because of no oil pressure is a pretty big difference. It certainly would not hurt anything to remove the oil pump and the oil pump drive rod to take a look see. If you say that your shaft on your distributor is bent, you may have put undue stress on that drive rod for your oil pump.
Like others have said, I think your cam is ok.
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By lostdogcustoms - 10 Years Ago
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well thats the thing if it is bent it is just the tiniest bit. It is the hex drive, the 57 distributors, and maybe others, have a little port thing that flips down to oil them. I guess i let it get dry cause that seems to be the cause of the failure. I just fear what it might have broken when it stopped spinning. However, as I said before, I just thought i stalled it and tried to restart it several times and the motor and valve train all turn as if nothing was wrong....but the distributor did not. I will have a new distributor tomorrow and here is my plan
1. Test the oil pump and drive with a socket and a drill if possible
2. OIL the new distributor
3. install the new distributor, with no rotor or cap, turn the motor, make sure it spins, make sure there is oil pressure
4. repeat with a little bit pressure on the distributor shaft to make sure nothing in there is slipping (namely the cam gear, trust me I am really hoping you are all correct and the cam is OK)
5. If all checks out, check all the fluids re time it and see if/how it will run.
I appreciate the input everybody here is a face to put with the problem
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By Bob Gardner - 10 Years Ago
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Visually inspecting the roll pin in the distributor drive gear doesn't mean the pin is not sheared. That roll pin is the weak link in the drive system. I bet the distributor shaft locked up and the cam sheared the pin. When you tried to start the car the camshaft just spun the gear on the distributor shaft. Since you have the distributor out, put it into a vice and try and rotated the gear. You can use a rag and a pair of locking pliers to try and turn it.
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By miker - 10 Years Ago
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Having read the comments since mine on the oil pump shaft, I think they're right. Pull the oil pump and replace the shaft. Even if it's visually perfect. That's you're last link, and cheap, and you won't have to worry about a stress fracture letting go in the future.
Cool car, and the oil pump looks easy to get at.
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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Sounds like you've got a handle on it. Nice car too by the way. Where are you located? It help to put general information in your tag line so we have an idea where you live. As mentioned the roll pin in the distributor gear is a weak link. Done that way to prevent worse damage. Chuck
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By lostdogcustoms - 10 Years Ago
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Hello everyone,
Thought I would give and update. I have yet to come up with a vice for my home shop, as crazy as it sounds. So i had previously tried to spin the gear on the distributor shaft with an awkward combination of channel locks and vice grips... so... then i forgot to bring it with me to work the last few days. As many of you suggested and many of you were correct, when i got it in the vice at work , i was able to spin the gear without a crazy amount of effort. The pin appears in place, but as Mr. Gardner said "Visually inspecting the roll pin in the distributor drive gear doesn't mean the pin is not sheared. That roll pin is the weak link in the drive system. I bet the distributor shaft locked up and the cam sheared the pin. When you tried to start the car the camshaft just spun the gear on the distributor shaft. Since you have the distributor out, put it into a vice and try and rotated the gear. You can use a rag and a pair of locking pliers to try and turn it." So I think I got lucky, and/or it failed as designed.
I ll give an update when i get the new distributor in and everything re timed. Thanks again to everybody, this is my first y block.
And to anyone just reading this thread for fun, take a lesson from my mistake...it might be a fine time to give your distributor a little squirt of oil
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