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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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I tried doing a search but could not find an answer.
Today I noticed my transmission is leaking quite a bit of fluid with the engine running. It is not coming out of the transmission itself but is actually coming out of the drive shaft yoke. The rear transmission seal is dry as is the driveshaft yoke. But on the back side of the yoke that faces the U-joint is wet and its dripping off one of the U-joint caps.
I know on certain scrubrolets they had a hole in the drive shaft yoke that they would leak from. The fix we use at work is placing a solid steel spacer in to block the hole or welding the hole up.
I do not want to attempt this so this post is to ask how does one correct this issue? It hasn't done it till now and the engine I got running again this past March/April.
~Update~
I did some reading and found out that the hole is for the slip yoke to slide without building pressure inside of the slip yoke. I also found that on scrubrolets they have a Oring but my shop manual and even my parts and illustration guide shows no seal for this.
Now the question I am asking myself is I did jack the car up quite high by the frame to replace the front wheels as I took the spare off both sides (spare from my Mercury and spare from my '56) and installed the factory wheels back on with new radial tires I had installed today. I am wondering if this caused this by shifting the fluid back resulting in the slip yoke being overwhelmed. But then if that is the case what keeps the fluid from leaking out like this when you are going up hill.
I will be heading to bed as I post this as I cant wrap my head around this and I hope to hear something by tomorrow if not I will probably pull the driveshaft and cut a cork gasket material to fit the inside of the slip yoke and jam it up against the small hole to plug it. Hate to do this if the purpose is to allow the slip yoke to slide without building internal pressure inside the slip yoke.
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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So i guess no one here knows how the slip yoke on a ford-o-matic seals.
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By Baby Blue 57 - 10 Years Ago
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It seals by the tail shaft seal only! If it's leaking from behind the yoke at the u-joints only real remedy is to replace the yoke... The plug thats at the end is factor welded or on some it is pressed in. I tried various ways and stuff to cure one of mine only to bite the bullet and get a new one! That solved my leak! Not what u wanted to hear but it is what it is. If you change the yoke I'd ck the play on the tail shaft bushing, if it's a bit sloppy it needs replacement then you will need a special puller to get it out and tap a new one in and of course new seal. Good luck.
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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Wait so these are not supposed to have a opening to relieve pressure in the yoke? If not I can just weld the end of the slip yoke up. I just didn't want to do that like we do at work because if it has a vent hole that is to allow the drive shaft to slide back and forth and I was afraid if I take and plug the hole up fluid would become trapped and hydrolock the drive shaft and not allow the slip yoke to slide.
I just want to make sure before I do anything as there are ways I can get around this even if that is pluging the hole I just could not find any mention of if it had a inner seal or not.
I know I found later on in the evening after my post above that the Cruise-O-Matics had what was called a output shaft spline seal which was also used on the FMX and the C4 transmissions but couldn't find anything on the Ford-O-Matic.
But thanks for the reply though it saved me a bunch of headache trying to figure this out if its supposed to be plugged. I will probably check everthing as I want to install the dust shield and I might replace the U-joints if they feel bad but I can take and weld the hole up without disassembly easily.
Also if I just locate a new yoke for it and replace it would I have to get the whole drive shaft balanced again? I never really replaced parts like this new that might potentially change the balance.
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By oldcarmark - 10 Years Ago
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There is a Vent on the side of the Transmission to prevent internal pressure buildup.
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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True, I was talking more of pressure between the output shaft an the slip yoke. That is what the vent hole was there for on some models that's why I didn't want to just weld it up till I was sure how this system seals as I don't want to cause more problems for me by fixing one problem incorrectly.
I did find out Tee-Bird products have a 16 spline slip yoke listed for the T-bird and the 55-56 fullsize cars for $80. I am just wondering if I should say screw it buy a new slip yoke and front U-joint and just replace it over trying to weld it up. I might have to sleep on it as replacing it I might have to rebalance the driveshaft and if not there will be that little bit at the back of my mind nagging me that I should or need to do it.
Just one of thoses things where I am very over protective of this car especially mechanically.
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By 57RancheroJim - 10 Years Ago
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I'm glad you brought this subject up because I'm dealing with just the opposite problem. I have a later model T85 from a 61 Galaxie in my 57 and it has an output shaft spline seal. I had never seen one on any of the other manual trans I had worked on in the past. I'm using the yoke that was with the trans originally and it has no vent hole and you can feel the pressure when you install the drive shaft. Now I'm wondering if it should have one?
If you remove your yoke to weld up, or possibly it could be tapped and plugged, just mark the orientation so it goes back on the shaft the same way. I don't think a small change to the center will effect the balance.
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By DryLakesRacer - 10 Years Ago
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Please take a moment and think about this. If the end of the yoke is sealed and you think there is too much pressure build up to move after greasing it, how would you ever get it to slide in in the first place? I looked at 3 yokes in my garage and they are all sealed with freeze plugs. Our 1/2 mile dirt cars drive shaft moves 3" in and out and I guarrentee its sealed. A stock drive shaft moves very little in normal driving (look at the seal mark left on the shaft). I'm sorry but, pressure on movement, I don't think so.
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By 57RancheroJim - 10 Years Ago
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If you have a spline seal it fits into the ID of the yoke. If the yoke isn't vented when you install the drive shaft you can feel the pressure and have to use force to get it in and when you let go it comes back out a little just like it was spring loaded..
When I had the tail housing off to replace the bushing I noticed this seal on the output shaft, first one I had ever seen. But like RUSTY said they were also used on C4 and Cruisomatics.
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By 57RancheroJim - 10 Years Ago
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Just for reference, this is the seal on the output shaft. The yoke has no splines in the first 1-2" that fits over the seal.
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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Hmm if the plug is just simply nothing but a brass core plug or a steel core plug then hell instead of welding it up I might as well take the yoke apart knock the old plug out if its still there and use some sealer and drive a new plug in. Be better than welding that's for sure.
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By 57RancheroJim - 10 Years Ago
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I think that would be worth a try, not much to loose for trying. I apologize for getting your post off track..
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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57RancheroJim (9/16/2015)
I think that would be worth a try, not much to loose for trying. I apologize for getting your post off track..
No need, this post should help everyone, there is really not much information out there about this.
As far as yours the output shaft spline seal as I have seen it called by, I seen comments that ford used the same seal for all that had a internal slip yoke seal. And they do all look the same but now the Cruise-O-Matic, C4, and FMX transmissions that use a inner slip yoke seal that I know of for sure I tried to find them and all I could find was out dated ebay listings of a box of NOS Cruise-O-Matic seals from years ago.
What you can try doing is one of two things. You can try some local transmission shops that sell transmission parts and see if they have any of those seals they are willing to part with. The other is modification, I read that thoses that use no slip yoke seal and has no hole in the slip yoke has two splines removed from the slip yoke itself so if allows the slip yoke to slide easily without binding on transmission fluid if some gets between the output shaft and the inside of the slip yoke.
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By 57RancheroJim - 10 Years Ago
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My seal is in great shape, thats why I have the pressure LOL. It's been running this way for about 5,000 miles with no problem so far. If I ever pull the drive shaft out in the future I think I'll add a small breather hole in the yoke.
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By Dobie - 10 Years Ago
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I found one at NAPA for a T-85 with OD. It's the same seal used in the FMX. I yanked what was left of my hair out for months trying to find one by asking for a seal for a T-85. Mostly got blank looks. So, if anyone else with a leaky T-85 reads this maybe I helped someone...
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By aussiebill - 10 Years Ago
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Rusty_S85 (9/16/2015)
True, I was talking more of pressure between the output shaft an the slip yoke. That is what the vent hole was there for on some models that's why I didn't want to just weld it up till I was sure how this system seals as I don't want to cause more problems for me by fixing one problem incorrectly. I did find out Tee-Bird products have a 16 spline slip yoke listed for the T-bird and the 55-56 fullsize cars for $80. I am just wondering if I should say screw it buy a new slip yoke and front U-joint and just replace it over trying to weld it up. I might have to sleep on it as replacing it I might have to rebalance the driveshaft and if not there will be that little bit at the back of my mind nagging me that I should or need to do it. Just one of thoses things where I am very over protective of this car especially mechanically.
Forget applying Che* locig to these fords ! remove the u joint and weld by brass weldng the plug in back of yolk.. Done !!!!!
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By wlj1943 - 10 Years Ago
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Rusty,
Old Fordomatics, especially those with an air cooled ('built-up") torque converter are very prone to "converter drain-back"; after May 1 1956 for most manufacturing locations in the USA,welded converters (which indicate water-cooled) transmissions were introduced; they have slightly lesser leakage issues and better alignment by design. This condition overfills the oil pan from the correct operation level by as much as 4 to 6 quarts, high enough so the rotating elements and planetary gears are actually submerged, as is the governor and even the output shaft. On a car driven daily, most do not notice this. Even slight wear on the yoke and the bushing coupled with an old tail shaft seal can cause leakage, to a flood after many months sitting. The most common cause of the drainback is wear, and misalignment; it was a common issue in the cast iron Fordamatics, and Cruse-o-matics from 1951 up and all Ford products and others with the Borg-Warner designs. Here in the States, a trade group (ATRA) published many fixes that helped, but data may be hard to find. All my old data went years ago when I sold my shop, but I remember some. The best of them was replacing the front pump bushing with one that had a tighter tolerance, and using the newer style silicone based front pump seal by TRW was a help too. You can do the tailshaft seal and bushing replacement in the passenger cars most trucks without transmission removal; not so on early birds. Alignment issues are hard for the average mechanic to measure and often even more complex to correct, especially when caused by casting creep/poor foundry practices.
Hope this helps some
WLJ
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By Rusty_S85 - 10 Years Ago
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It does help. I got a reply on a Tbird forum I posted this question to also the guy posted a link that showed a picture of the yoke. When plug was said I thought we were talking like a small 1/8" plug not a plug as in the whole back side of the yoke. THe link which I will post below showed filling the plug in with a good layer of jb weld. After seeing this I don't think I want to attempt to weld this up and I am sure the leak that just came up all of a sudden was due to drain back submerging the system which ironically the rear tail shaft seal was not leaking. So I have to assume the tail shaft plug must have corroded through.
Now I am left with a delima as I can order a new drive shaft yoke for $80 but I have to check my transmission shop manual as I do not recall the output shaft spline count as the only one I have found is from Tee-Bird Inc and theirs is a 16 spline count but does not say application.
http://www.tee-bird.com/catalog_product_detailed.cfm?id=12107
Or I can try the fix shown below which is filling the plug in on the U-joint side with JB Weld.
http://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/TransFluidLeak.php
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By stuey - 10 Years Ago
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http://www.northerndrivetrain.com/product/SPI-500166-20.html
is this what you are looking for ?? you may have to do some more research to determine correct size/diam. look for dana/spicer parts
if so this may be useful http://www.hubbardspring.com/install_reco.php?cid=45
stuey
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