This week I splurged and replaced the Holley 600cfm outfit I had on there with  a new 525cfm Road Demon Jr. To try and get a handle on the fuel supply thing, I borrowed Al Frakes dyno sheet and had a look at the BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) numbers. It shows the kind of "pounds per horsepower hour" fuel demand present when you are making 300+ horses. The peak was .544 (#/hp hr) which is about 30 gallons per hour at the carb (at whatever pressure it demands - no big deal on the dyno, that one is a good sized electric that won't starve an engine under test). This number was produced at a rate of acceleration of 300 rpm/sec - not exactly drag race stuff. 

I found this page out of the Holley catalog that shows "real" loaded performance data for their 80 and 110 gph pumps and gives some idea of what they do when the load is 4.5 psi. The 80 gph model looks like it could deal with the 300 hp situation - stays over 30 gph - but thats without a fuel filter or any loss due to sucking through a little 15 foot tube.

 http://www.holley.com/BrowseCatalogs.asp?Catalog=Holley&Page=196

I am sorely tempted to try one of these FE pumps on my bird - but will it fit in the space by the frame rail? Has someone tried this particular brand of pump on a t-bird? I believe it will need a new (larger, cleaner) feed tube from the tank to work right. I promise not to cry over the loss of the "original vacuum wiper" system.

Al was thinking he would try to retain his original pump and then feed it with an electric "supercharger" pump. Is there someone using that arrangement with success?

I found the big Airtex #362 pump in several places - Rock Auto is $48 and shipping - Laurel Mt. Mustang has a listing for $39 (which is way cheap I think). The Airtex pump looks identical to the Holley 80 gph unit and is listed as the replacement pump for the 428 Cobra Jet motors.

Gary Burnette - What size of tubing have you got run back to the tank? Will 3/8 OD do it or will I need to make it even bigger? 

And it would be nice to think the 5/16 tube back to the tank will be good enough to do the job without a tube straightening/bending contest. But it may be full of gunk.

The little 90° elbow on the inlet of my stock pump - and I believe its just they way they built it to start with - has got two tiny intersecting holes in it that have to be a major part of this capacity problem. It looks like a 1/8 NPT to me.  

Since the #362 works on Gary's outfit - it ought to fit in here too! But, man it'll be close...

According to my infared temperature gun - the temperature of the fuel really goes up as it travels through the pump. And the time it spends in the fuel filter sort of finishes the job...this whole arrangement may need some more thinkum. Double gasket with aluminum foil between them to isolate the pump from the block?

One thing I did notice about the Holley parts sheet - it says (*) the inlet and outlet ports are 1/4 NPT - and all of the other 80 GPH pumps say 3/8 NPT. It must be becasue of the factory Ford fittings its supposed to be used with on the 428 FE. Inverted flares no doubt. So -----if a guy wanted a lower housing with more flow potential - you'd have to swipe one off a chebbie or other suitable boatanchor. 

Eddie

Lake Forest, Ca.

Turning the inlet/outlet to the "right" position is a case of learning by trial and error. There are 10 scews so you have a few choices to sort out. Mine finally ended up so that the outlet is 36° left of dead ahead. When you take the bowl screws out - be prepared for the diaphragm to disengage from the operating levers and fall out of the dumb thing (could be that the dummy is talking here). Getting the devil back together is a case of "learning to hold your mouth right" - a phrase I learned from a banjo picking friend.

My advice (if yours falls apart) is to carefully remove the small diameter lever return spring (directly under the operating lever) - it can fly and will also fight everything you try to do. Then wrap a rubber band around the operator lever to hold the smaller lever inside (that actually engages the slot in the diaphragm operating rod) out into a position where you can actually maneuver the rod back into engagement. Once you've got it back engaged, subsitute the lower bowl for the fingers you have holding the diaphragm. It helped me to find three screws that matched the bowl screw threads - but were about 3/4 inch longer - to start it all back together. After a few trials you will either get good at this or resort to drinking. When everything is back as it should be - cut the rubber band and reinstall the return spring.

Test it one last time before you bolt it in - to be sure it has stayed together internally and will actually pump.

The 90° double flare fittings I found had tiny internal passages and I opened them up as much as I dared by drilling. Also did a bit of "porting" on the inlet elbow to make sure I didn't build in a suction restriction. You can reduce pump efficiency more easily on the intake side than the pressure side. The rule of thumb for hydraulic pumps is usually to make the suction side twice the size of the pressure side - and that holds for this type of pump too. 

Yeah, I know - the rear upper A-arm bushing is trashed.....

On another note, I still have the vacuume wipers and just plugged them into an intake port. They work fine too, no difference from being hooked up to the fuel pumo!

Rob

IF so, would any 390 or 427 pump work, like these:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D250006%2D1&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D12%2D832&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CRT%2DM4008&N=700+115&autoview=sku

I dont need the vacuum pump portion, but would prefer something that is NOT chrome.  So does it seem like fule delivery might be the issue, and if so, are these (or any others?) good options?

Sorry for the simple question, but Ive forgotten what little I knew about tuning carbs, and NOBODY around here knows squat about how to open a hood.

THANKS!!!!

ron

Because they only come with 1/4 pipe thread inlets - be careful about strangling the suction side of the pump.

I would say that it would be wise to beware of using just any old FE size/fit fuel pump - many I looked at are plainly not the equal of the versions we are talking about.    

I guess the real question is if you feel that fuel delivery may be part of my problem, or if im barking up the wrong tree?  Im not particularly good at troubleshooting, especially carb/fuel issues, so any insight is really appreciated.

Thanks!

I figure that the factory fuel pumps on these mid-fifties Y's weren't intended to feed the engines any more than Ford engineering felt was "necessary" for a family sedan. The exception being the dual carb and supercharged versions - and they had different fuel supply equipment too. When we hop them up and give the engines the ability to accelerate beyond the requirements of the family sedan - there are instances where the carb basically just gets low on fuel and limits the rate of acceleration. If we don't spend a lot of time at the track, just gun it a bit on Saturday nite - it may not be worth the moola to upgrade beyond "cruiser " status. However.......instant throttle response does have its safety aspects, right? 

I've ordered up some steel needle and seat assemblies for the Demon - the originals act sticky to me - and Hoosier has made a few comments about troubles with the common Viton tips. So she's going to end up with some .130's - and I quit.....no more souping up the fuel supply.