|
By Bob Gardner - 9 Years Ago
|
|
Is there any thing that can be done to improve the oiling to the cam and lifters? We did an engine break in run on the dyno (25 minutes) and post run inspection showed that the cam lobes were damaged on three of the center cylinders. Would adding a couple of grooves off the center cam bearing help increase the oil splash in that area? Or is there an oil galley that could be tapped into to add a spray bar? I am running an Isky (Y-280-I-11) cam with Mummert heads.
|
|
By aussiebill - 9 Years Ago
|
Bob Gardner (1/7/2016)
Is there any thing that can be done to improve the oiling to the cam and lifters? We did an engine break in run on the dyno (25 minutes) and post run inspection showed that the cam lobes were damaged on three of the center cylinders. Would adding a couple of grooves off the center cam bearing help increase the oil splash in that area? Or is there an oil galley that could be tapped into to add a spray bar? I am running an Isky (Y-280-I-11) cam with Mummert heads.
bob, doubt you would have to go to that length as these engines have been around a long time without doing that. you dont mention lifters, spring pressures oil, cam lube procedure etc there could be variable reasons.that will raise all of the usual issues.Ted is best guy to answer based on his wide actual knowledge of these engines.
|
|
By Kahuna - 9 Years Ago
|
|
Were the lifters NEW, or resurfaced?
|
|
By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
|
AussieBill's questions are good ones, AND I also would value Ted Eaton's, John Mummert's, Royce Brechler's, and Tim McMaster's comments to name four that come to mind immediately as individuals who deal with this stuff on the basis that I do not as a hobbyist.
Somewhere I picked up a recommendation that IF you are using elevated pressure valve springs with your camshaft, break the cam in with stock springs and then change them out. Faulty memory, or old wives tale?
Sorry to hear that you're experiencing this grief after all of your work, Bob. UGH! 
|
|
By Rowen - 9 Years Ago
|
Charlie, I would very much like to find out about that "old wives tale" myself as I have 115 lb springs in my rebuilt 56 heads going on my new engine. I will not be breaking it in for quite a while but I certainly don't want to screw up my cam. (Or anything else for that matter). I do have a set of stock springs if I need to change them out for break in.
I hope someone chimes in on this.
Rowen
|
|
By Joe-JDC - 9 Years Ago
|
|
Break in the camshaft with the springs you are going to run all the time. If you lubed everything properly, and did a pre-oil pressure check of the rocker arms getting oil, you should have not had a problem. If you turned the engine over several times without actually running it, the spring pressure may have wiped the lube off the camshaft. Joe-JDC.
|
|
By Bob Gardner - 9 Years Ago
|
|
Yes, these were new lifters. As for the valve springs, these were the ones that JM assembled the heads with. BTW the rocker assemblies are new as well. I ordered the entire rebuild package from JM and assumed that he used the right springs for the cam. The engine internals were properly lubed and it fired right up. It was run between 2500 and 3500 rpm. As for the oil, it was break in oil and would be swapped out for dinosaur oil after we finished up with tuning the EFI (using a carb for the break in runs) on the dyno. Just another little set back with this engine.
|
|
By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
|
There is no need to modify the oiling system, though you need to be sure that it is functioning correctly. From Ted's site, a list of causes for cam failure, most of which have nothing to do with lubrication
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2012/11/06/camshaft-and-lifter-failure-causes-2/
|
|
By Bob Gardner - 9 Years Ago
|
Thanks Charlie. It looks like a good list of items to check before we fire it up with the new cam. BTW the wife and I are only four months from completing our relocation to Savannah. So I only have a couple of months to get my truck back together...the bodywork is going to the painter tommorrow (Friday). I should be hauling it along with the rest of my garage stuff to the new house in March.
Bob
|
|
By Joe-JDC - 9 Years Ago
|
As a retired Automotive Instructor, and builder of dozens of engines over my life time, I still have to disagree with changing out valve springs on camshaft break in procedures. It is not a good idea, nor is it necessary. No factory does it on their high performance engines, and it is not taught in basic engine building courses. Yes, some folks swear by this procedure, but it is unnecessary, and a waste of valuable time. I have built and raced Ford vehicles since 1962 when I rebuilt my first 292. Sorry, but I will stand on my statement, "Break in the engine with the springs you are going to run.".
Joe-JDC
|
|
By Small block - 9 Years Ago
|
The problem with using a brake in oil in a engine with a new set of lifters is the brake in oil is made to seat the rings fast The rings ware to fit the bores but the lifters ware as well! What you want to brake in a new cam is a Oil that has a high PSI rating on the ware protection
I haad the same problem with my engine, I was using Joe Gibs brake in oil then I found out it is to brake in the rings not the Cam! The last two engines I built I used Pennzoil High Mileage to do the brake in and the can was checked for ware after 200 miles and looked like new!
|
|
By Grumpy1 - 9 Years Ago
|
Sorry, but all cam manufactures recommend using light springs or removing the inner spring when breaking in a cam. They also recommend using low ration rocker arms. And this is recommend for engines with hydraulic lifters.
I also agree with not using break in oil. Find oil with the highest zinc and phosphorus contend. (high zddp) SL raing.
You may also want to have your cam shaft Nitrided.
Grumpy
|
|
By PF Arcand - 9 Years Ago
|
Break in oil? You don't say which one? Did you note after, whether or not U had proper oiling to the top end?. And I can't comment on it for sure, but I wonder if 3500 rpms wasn't a bit much for an initial start up. Did you part fill the oil filter before installing? An annoying situation, hope you can solve it..
|
|
By Small block - 9 Years Ago
|
|
One of the biggest reasons people are killing Cams during brake in now as compared to 15 years ago has little to do with the lack of ZDDP, It is more to do with the
Engine builder being uninformed as to what oil should be used during Brake in, People are using a brake in oil for running in a new cam! The off the shelf brake in oils have about 40, 000 pounds load ware resistance
Research has shown you need a minimum of 70,000 to safly brake in a cam! Buy a better oil and the cam will live!
|
|
By OlWeldinrig - 9 Years Ago
|
|
Our local speed shop uses Joe Gibbs on his dyno runs on new motors.It is very high in zinc
|
|
By Small block - 9 Years Ago
|
56F250 (1/10/2016)
Our local speed shop uses Joe Gibbs on his dyno runs on new motors.It is very high in zinc
Yes Joe Gibbs oil is good but You have to make sure You use the right oil, Joe Gibbs sells about 7 different oils don't use brake in oil !
|
|
By 2721955meteor - 9 Years Ago
|
|
i side with jdc,if the cam had the moley based past installed at asembley, pree lubed useing 10-30 oil of good quality. with ys be sure ther is oil to the rockers,plug the bleed lines from rockers. i have a list of oils with the presure break down and all the oils such as motorcraft ,quaker state,valviline all pass with lots to spare. do not use rotela t it is for diesel engines onley and is blended to handel low sulpher fuel used in most diesel to day.. i have info frome 2 local cam grinders that new cams for flat tappet engines have a high % of junk cores from china and ground in the us by competent grinders.part of the reason for high failure. i will hold my breathe when i start the 292 in my 48 merc f47 have a new ebay cam with refaced lifters. lots of moley past on lobes, pre lubed with much oil to rockes(blocked bleed offs. wont have a report till this summer,engine readey but not the 48.(ps i refased the lifters with a setup on my lathe useing a high sped grinder,finish and taper same as new.
|
|
By Cliff - 9 Years Ago
|
|
Hi, can you post a picture of the setup you used to reface your lifters? does it have a brand name or did you fab it?
|
|
By aussiebill - 9 Years Ago
|
Think most of the remarks about running in cam useing lighter valve springs is misinterpted. our average rated spring pressures dont require changing during run in, changing to lighter springs is reserved to well above normal rpm and performance levels our even hotted up street engines wont see. i,ve has triple isky springed engines and just took out the inner spring to avoid overloading the surfaces during breakin, then refit.
|
|
By 2721955meteor - 9 Years Ago
|
Cliff (1/10/2016)
Hi, can you post a picture of the setup you used to reface your lifters? does it have a brand name or did you fab it?
it is home madeand is not fast,i will be trying to make some improvements to speed the process.. basicley i made a holder for a motor frome a blower and atached a fine grinding wheel9in in d. put the lifters in the 3jaw chuck and spin the lathe in oposit direction to grinder. the tool post is adjustable to get corect angle on lifter. have some new lifters to get corect angle and similar finish.
|
|
By Cliff - 9 Years Ago
|
|
Hi, I have a tool post grinder (dumore) do think I can use that to do the same?
|
|
By Lord Gaga - 9 Years Ago
|
I'll add more fuel to the fire 
I coat the lobes and lifters with Isky cam lube ( paste). I make sure the valves are adjusted correctly. I pre-lube the engine with a speed wrench and socket on the oil pump drive shaft. (I use Valvolene 30wt Non-Detergent oil with no extra additives.) I start the engine and immediately take it to 2000 RPMs watching oil pressure. I run it for 20 minutes varying the RPM by 500 or so. I shut it down and check the valve adj. Been doing it this way for years and years with no cam failures!
|
|
By Bob Gardner - 9 Years Ago
|
|
I got some great news about the engine today and I broke into my happy dance. It was run on the dyno for 45 minutes and survived its break in this time. We changed the valve keepers out before the run to remove a little of the valve spring load on the cam. These will be swapped out for the original keepers that came with the Mummert heads and the engine will be run a little longer just to make sure that the internals are happy with one another. If that works out ok, we will swap the carb out for the EFI hardware and start the tuning process on Friday. I can hardly wait as it has only been just over a year since I pulled the engine and ordered the parts.
|
|
By Ted - 9 Years Ago
|
Cliff (1/10/2016)
Hi, I have a tool post grinder (dumore) do think I can use that to do the same?
That's a NO unless you can cut a radius with that tool post grinder. The lifters need a crown ground on them and the ideal crown would be on a 50-52 inch radius. If I’m to err to one side of that spec, my own preference is to be closer to the 50” spec.
|