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By 56Roger - 9 Years Ago
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Never mind. The thread was not about complaining about John's products, or me saying I could do better if I made heads myself, or any of the other even further off topic things said about my post.
It was about taking one of the best products there is for the engines that fall under the title of this website, these heads, and trying to get the most out of them.
That as well as telling the members about a neat machine that will easily give you actual compression ratios as opposed to using a bunch of thorny calculations that are prone to mistakes to do it.
Then using that machine to show some real world numbers about the same heads, something that has been asked for here many times but answered with "it calculates to..."
For those that saw the thread and got something out of it, I'm glad.
For those that saw the thread and didn't like what they saw, pick on the next guy that tells the truth. It won't be me.
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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I think I read the thread wrong or something 56 Roger.
I appreciated what you had shared for a variety of reasons and am disappointed that your (and others') entries have been removed. My read of your information and others' comments were not viewed as derogatory but instead informative.
Side comment: Me thinks that when our Forum membership list was 'cleaned-up' (names removed due to inactivity) after one of our previous software 'updates', some good previous threads were also eliminated when the membership names were removed. -I may be mistaken on this. It was earlier in my membership learning curve so I don't know this statement to be 100% accurate.
When I come across something helpful to what I'm trying to do or understand, I copy and paste the individual Forum entries from a thread into a Word document and file it for future reference. My filing system is more manageable for me than having to go searching the Forum Archive for previously identified GooD information. Too, time has shown that with software updates of the Forum web site, earlier entries are sometimes no longer open-able. UGH!
Anyway, I regret that I did not copy your entry before it was removed. I was interested in ALL that you made the time to write and appreciated your having shared it. I thought I 'GOT' the intent of what you shared as well as learned of a neat way to measure compression ratio that I had no awareness of existing.
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By Oldmics - 9 Years Ago
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Rodger
I read your original information and took away what was intended.
I like you leave no stone unturned. Not only by my own judgment but also by those contributors around me who are seasoned experts.
Respectfully, Oldmics
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By '60 Fairlane - 9 Years Ago
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Roger, I read your post with interest and I'm sorry you felt the need to take it down. I for one had really hoped that John or even Ted would have addressed some of the things you noted. Wasn't looking to read an internet fight, but had wanted to learn even more. Oh well, it is what it is. Maybe others who have used John's cylinder heads could respond with their experience with them. Don't know if I'll ever be able to afford a set, but I'd still like to build an engine with them.
-Dave
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By Small block - 9 Years Ago
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It was disappointing to see the posts all deleted! is that how this Forum Works? A post that states fact is deleted because you don't like what is said!
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By pegleg - 9 Years Ago
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Roger,
I hope you did not take my comments as an insult. I was close to John during the development of the heads Tooling, and may be a bit oversensitive. If so please excuse me.
Whomever deleted the original posts, please restore them. There was a lot of good info that should not be lost, You can edit the posts to prevent any more hard feelings or delete my post without any resistance from me.
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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Roger. I had just read the post yesterday morning and was going to respond to it (positively) but it was gone when I got ready to make the reply.
Early on it was discussed whether forum members should have the ability to edit and delete their own posts and it was decided to give that option to them. The number of duplicate posts is why the ‘delete’ option is available to them so that the moderators do not have to spend as much time cleaning up the forums. There have been a number of instances now where complete threads have been deleted by the original poster so it may be time to reconsider the availability of the delete option. The edit option will for sure stay as it is.
But beyond all that, here are my observations. You’ve only just discovered what is known by anyone that makes a living doing engine work already knows and that’s to check all the parts thoroughly before installing them. I will add that John’s heads are a notch or two above the majority of aftermarket heads when it comes to the quality but they are still disassembled and tweaked upon when received. I cringe when I get a new set of Edelbrock cylinder heads in the shop as you can be guaranteed that there will be some problems that must be addressed. There should be no excuse for bent valves in ‘out of the box’ heads but it has happened in the Edelbrocks which simply means quality control on the finished product is seriously lacking. AFR, Brodix and Dart heads also have to be disassembled from the git go and checked over. I’ve seen problems with the best and most expensive of them so no one is exempt.
You do bring up a subject that does need to be touched upon and that’s the variability of parts in general. While I have very good results with custom pistons regardless of the manufacturer, the run of the mill replacement pistons are all over the map regarding sizing. Let’s just say that Sealed Power is at the top of the list for this. I’ve also had new pistons arrive with egg shaped wrist pin holes and these were all caught during the inspection process. Many of these pistons come from India now but these problems were already there before the manufacturing was moved out of the States.
I’ve had piston rings that are out of round and unless you put the rings in the bores before installing them on the pistons and examining the fit within the cylinders with a light under them, these are hard to catch until the engine is up and running. Once in the engine, it’s a ring seal issue and very difficult to break in. Camshafts is another area that many take for granted but once you start checking all the lobes, you find which cam companies to stay clear of. Engine bearings have their own issues in regards to variability and all must be measured before installing them. If you have issues with bearing clearances, then another set of bearings with the same number but a different day of manufacture will give you some different clearance values. Gaskets must be examined closely also for defects. I’ve had brand new carburetors with cleaning beads still in them and those would have posed a problem if not found before actually running the carburetor. In one particular test, four identical out of the box high performance carburetors were tested and there was a 10 HP difference between these four carbs when tested as received. Manufacturing tolerances can stack up thus compounding little issues into large ones. All these aforementioned parts come from the popular name brand suppliers so assume nothing when taking any new part from a box.
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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TED. THANKS for your reply to 56Roger. While those who know me think me 'obsessive' in my engine assembly efforts, you've opened my eyes to checking even more things that I hadn't even thought of! Wow! The more I learn, the more there seems to be to learn!
While I thinks I missed a couple of Forum member replies before 56Roger eliminated his thread entry, I think that others like me were getting a good lesson on the need and importance to 'CHECK EVERYTHING MECHANICAL!', too.
On the same subject, my sense is that all engine machine shops are not the same. As a hobbyist I've spent serious time looking at equipment and 'talking shop' before feeling comfortable with turning to one for their work. That said, while equipment capability is important, the operator is the one who makes the difference and their understanding of what I'm doing with my 50+ year old y-block stuff.
Thanks for your continuing effort to answer questions and present information that helps in our hobby pursuit, Ted. Your knowledge, experience, expertise, and writing ability coupled with other participants here are invaluable to the health and vitality of this Forum and my success with my undertakings.
Going back, thanks to you and Royce for recounting your experiences in preparing y-block engines for the 2015 Engine Masters Competition. 
Regards,
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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56Roger. While your history of Forum participation (posts and logged-on visits) may suggest your not being a 'seasoned participant', the information you initially reported in your thread 'Recent Install Aluminum Heads' was thoroughly explained and detailed, clearly written, and matter-of-fact in nature. In my reading of replies from other members, I didn't perceive anyone saying, 'Who are YOU to be saying this stuff?' OR 'What do you know about anything?!' OR 'That's not true!' That said, you apparently eliminated the thread before I had a chance to view some of the last thread entries.
Over time I've learned of the technical background of some of the participants on this Forum. While there are hobbyists like myself with 'pseudo technical' credentials (know enough about some things to be dangerous to themselves and others), we have an amazing cadre of individuals who harbor technical experience which grew out of their technical, hard-knocks, engineering or related work credentialed employment. Some of these individuals have 'graduated' from their earlier careers and now dabble in new employment ventures, their own business effort, other interests, or hobbies... like y-block Ford related stuff.
In the time I've been following this Forum I'm hard pressed to remember ANY entries I've read that have been cheap, shallow, from-the-hip, pointed, derogatory, or otherwise inappropriate in my view. Some years ago, I do remember making the reply to one new Forum member's quip to another who he really had no relationship with. My entry was, 'We don't talk to each other that way on this Forum'. My recollection is that the new member's quip was directed to John Mummert and was dismissive of either John's comment, information entry, offered opinion, personal experience, or technical expertise. -Yes, that was a while ago...
56Rodger, What you brought to our Forum was an important topic, first hand-experience, and information worth sharing. Your entry should have been valued by anyone who considered the time, effort, and care you expended in authoring it. It was well stated and presented. Thanks for considering continuing to be a Forum member and an active participant. The quality and worth of this web site is a reflection of those who participate. Historically, there have been AMAZING contributors who have made AMAZING contributions to other members' knowledge and understanding of y-block related 'stuff'.
Regards,
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By aussiebill - 9 Years Ago
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NoShortcuts (1/29/2016)
56Roger. While your history of Forum participation (posts and logged-on visits) may suggest your not being a 'seasoned participant', the information you initially reported in your thread 'Recent Install Aluminum Heads' was thoroughly explained and detailed, clearly written, and matter-of-fact in nature. In my reading of replies from other members, I didn't perceive anyone saying, 'Who are YOU to be saying this stuff?' OR 'What do you know about anything?!' OR 'That's not true!' That said, you apparently eliminated the thread before I had a chance to view some of the last thread entries. Over time I've learned of the technical background of some of the participants on this Forum. While there are hobbyists like myself with 'pseudo technical' credentials (know enough about some things to be dangerous to themselves and others), we have an amazing cadre of individuals who harbor technical experience which grew out of their technical, hard-knocks, engineering or related work credentialed employment. Some of these individuals have 'graduated' from their earlier careers and now dabble in new employment ventures, their own business effort, other interests, or hobbies... like y-block Ford related stuff. In the time I've been following this Forum I'm hard pressed to remember ANY entries I've read that have been cheap, shallow, from-the-hip, pointed, derogatory, or otherwise inappropriate in my view. Some years ago, I do remember making the reply to one new Forum member's quip to another who he really had no relationship with. My entry was, 'We don't talk to each other that way on this Forum'. My recollection is that the new member's quip was directed to John Mummert and was dismissive of either John's comment, information entry, offered opinion, personal experience, or technical expertise. -Yes, that was a while ago... 56Rodger, What you brought to our Forum was an important topic, first hand-experience, and information worth sharing. Your entry should have been valued by anyone who considered the time, effort, and care you expended in authoring it. It was well stated and presented. Thanks for considering continuing to be a Forum member and an active participant. The quality and worth of this web site is a reflection of those who participate. Historically, there have been AMAZING contributors who have made AMAZING contributions to other members' knowledge and understanding of y-block related 'stuff'. Regards,
Very good overview of the situation and background of this forum.
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By Joe-JDC - 9 Years Ago
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When I first read the post, I felt a bit unnerved that I could be the intended target of the implications. I have ported several sets of John's heads over the last few years, and I have had to accomplish a fresh valve job after several sets of heads were finished porting. It is very difficult to hand port any head after the valve job has been accomplished without a mishap causing a ding somewhere along the way. My Serdi operator always pulls vacuum on each valve to assure a complete seal by testing each port to at least 40" vacuum. However as anyone who has worked with hundreds of heads over the years will attest, some slip by and can ruin a persons' reputation by talking about them behind their back, and not going to the person and having the discussion with them before taking it to the internet to bash them. I would only ask to be given the chance to make right any work considered of substandard quality before going to the internet if I were the person who completed that work. JMO, but once a thing has been spoken, it cannot ever be taken back without hurting folks names, or reputations. John Mummert has revitalized the Y Block community with his heads and intakes, and without them, we would be still working with worn out stock. Joe-JDC
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By 56Roger - 9 Years Ago
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Exactly the first line of the first post said that I was NOT disparaging anyone's products or methods.
And while reading the first post you must missed have the part where I told everyone we talked to John first. Mainly because once the lapping was done we would "own" the heads. He said to go ahead as he was confident they would clean up fairly easily, which they did. Which is also what I said.
At NO point did I ever "bash" him or anyone else.
Along with that I said more than once that John has done nothing but good things for the Y-block, probably more than anyone, or words to that effect.
I also said I waited several weeks before posting to think about everything before I wrote anything.
Stuff like this is why I deleted the first thread. I am done with the subject.
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By pegleg - 9 Years Ago
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Roger,
One final question, what are the heads going on and how did they work when you were done?
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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56Roger. I'm going to be in Orlando and Clearwater the 4th - 8th to see my sister and a friend who moved South in August.
I tried to IM you but could not. -No data.
Consider IM AND email to me using Forum. I'd like to meet for coffee.
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By Rowen - 9 Years Ago
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Okay, I am about to stick my nose in where It most likely doesn't belong.
As you can see by my profile, I visit this site VERY frequently, (10 or more times a day). I am 63 and will be retiring in a very few years. I have always known I would some day own one of these rare and beautiful cars.
As a novice, no, more like a babe, to these cars, I have come to rely heavily on the vast knowledge of the people on this site. Without people like Ted, John M, Charlie, and yes, 56roger, It could take me forever to learn enough to adequately care for my 55CV. I found 56roger's post to be very informative and well written. It would be a shame if he, or any other member, novice or expert, should decide not share their knowledge or questions because of a disagreement or misunderstanding.
I look forward to continuing my Y-block education thru this forum. Hopefully one day, I too will be able to contribute more than just questions. Until that time, I thank you all for your patience with me and others and our sometimes silly questions and even sillier comments.
Your Y-block student,
Rowen
PS: I hope this is not inappropriate, but I had to get it out.
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By speedpro56 - 9 Years Ago
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56 Roger, all of my aluminum heads were disassembled valves lapped spring height checked reassembled and run great. That's what my engine guys do regardless of what I take to them. Great article you wrote and Great products from John as well and I like the fact we all work together in making our y blocks the best they've ever been. Sharing is what it's all about!
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By pegleg - 9 Years Ago
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How about an article on the car for the YBM magazine. Bruce would love that.
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