Have a strange thing on my 56 Vicky, I have been living with it for a while now but want to see if anyone has a quick fix or has seen it before.  I searched and didn't come up with anything that seemed related.

When the car sits for a few days I have to pump and crank it for about 10 seconds then it fires right up.  (I think this is very normal).  Then if I shut it off and restart it within about 5 min's it fires up as soon as I hit the starter.... GREAT...

However, the problem is if I run it till it's warm and then shut it off and wait an hour or so (like drive to a cruise or something), it takes a LOT of cranking (20 seconds) and pumping to get it started, then it runs rough for about 5 seconds... and then is back to normal.  If I then shut it off it will start up immediately again.

Could it be something like a stuck choke or bad float bowl or something?

Thanks!!!

I've done some playing with the T-pot (still having issues).  If I run it till its hot (185*) then shut it down and pull the top off the carb I see little streams of bubbles coming up through the fuel. I assume that is percolation mentioned above.  As this is bubbleing I also see fuel coming in from the inlet valve.

So, if this is percolation, is there a good way to fix it? I'm in AZ and it's pretty warm now so I need to get it fixed if I'm going to drive it much.

One guy at a cruise in mentioned that percolation causes the fuel to evaporate and the issue when you try to start it isn't that it's flooded but that it has to pump the lines full again. He suggested I add an electric fuel pump to run for a few seconds before I start it.  What do you guys think?

As the fuel percolates, where are those fuel vapors going?  They are collecting in the air filter.  That causes a rich mixture when you try to restart.  Sometime when it's warmed up, shut it down and take the air filter off.  Let it sit for an hour and then put the filter back on and try to start it.  See if it acts any differently.

Do you have the 1/2" thick phenolic spacer between the manifold and carb.  That should insulate the carb some to reduce percolation.  There is a little flat metal clip around the accelerator pump rod just below the air cleaner flange.  That clip covers a hole in the pump rod, slide the clip up or down on the rod to uncover the hole.  Also, be sure the heat riser valve between the right exhaust manifold and the exhaust pipe is free, or in your climate, just tie it open.  That will reduce intake manifold heat.  Truck intake gaskets can be used to further reduce intake heat.  In your area, you might get away with blocking the exhaust heat at the juncture of the heads and manifold.

John in Selma, IN

That's a good question.  The pumps I've had apart are all old ones, and the check valves seem to be made of a hard fibreboard like material.  New ones may have some type of viton like valves, I'm not sure.  Also, I tend to think our midwest gasoline suppliers are still selling out the rest of the winter stock in the tanks, and that blend evaporates quicker for better winter starts.  Percolates easier, though.

John

Thanks for the advice. I looked on the carb and it only has the thin gasket between it and the manifold. Do you know where I can get a spacer and longer studs?

I also looked for the clip on the accelerator rod but all I saw was the screw that attaches the linkage... It may have been taken off before I got it.  Also the heat riser has been pinched off on the manifold and a plug is in the carb where I assume the riser should go. 

Here is a pic of what I see... Please let me know if you see any glaring issues or if the heat riser being missing could cause more problems.

Thanks!

The insulator blocks are no longer available from Ford, they show up on ebay occasionally.  I have heard of people fabricating them from a piece of fine grained hardwood.  Longer studs should be available at your local parts store.

The clip was not present on all T-pots, or as you said, maybe someone took it off.  I can't tell in the pic if the hole is there or not.

The heat riser I was referring to is the flapper valve that is sandwiched between the exhaust manifold and the exhaust pipe.  The tubes you are talking about are the choke heat and fresh air tubes.

John

I grabbed that spacer from ebay, thanks for the tip

 John,

The heat riser from the exhaust was long gone by the time I put a new system on it.  I figured since it's usually pretty warm here I didnt bother replacing it.  Could the other tubes that are pinched on the manifold be causing me any issues?

It does have a small hole in the accelerator pump rod just above the screw that attaches it to the linkage. Is that the hole?  Since this site only allows 400x400 pics (even in PM or email) I uploaded the original pics to a share that can be seen more clearly.

http://cid-1d36ad7734b36d71.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public

Thanks again to everyone for all the input, I sure love this site and have dug some real jewels from old posts

The small hole is the one closed by a clip for winter operation.  You are in good shape there, leave it open.  The pinched off tube is associated with the automatic choke, it supplies heated air to open the choke.  Do you still have the automatic choke?  Does it have a heated air supply?  Does it open fully when the engine is warmed up?  If it doesn't open, it will cause hot starting problems as well as poor gas mileage.

John in Selma, IN

Thanks

Thanks again!

I don't see how your choke can possibly be working properly.  That open fitting is where the heated air is supposed to go in to the choke housing to heat the bi-metal spring and open the choke.  The heat is supposed to come from the bottom of the intake manifold.  There is a tube running across the floor of the center (exhaust) chamber, and it is probably rusted in two, that's why the tube on the other side has been pinched off.  A "heat stove" can be installed on the exhaust manifold and a tube connected to that fitting to provide heat for the choke if you do not want to remove the intake and repair the rusted out tube.

John

Either way I imagine that it's bad to have an open vacuum sucking dirty air.  I stuck a plug in it for now but would like to get it working correctly in case I need to run in cold conditions sometime.

Are there any diagrams anywhere that show how the tube is supposed to look?  Or can someone post a couple pics? I hate to keep this thread going but really want to make sure I don't mess it up.

Do both of the tubes on both sides of the manifold go up to the carb? I see the two pinched tubes (one on each side) and I already had a hole plugged on the drivers side right under the lip for the air cleaner, the other I assume goes right up from the manifold to the vacuum under the choke.

Again, thanks for all the info. I'm trying to soak it all up but I'm a little slow

Thanks for the info. It's been a while since I've had time to get on and look at the posts. 

Can you help me out with some specific key words for Ebay? Or even better yet if you have a listing # for a set that is for sale or has been sold so I can look at it.  I poked around on Ebay but didn't run across anything that looked right.  I'd love to pick one up and get this thing running right.

Thanks again!!

Andrew

You might try "choke stove" or "choke hot air".  Also, until you get a heat source, you could loosen the three screws that hold the choke cover and turn the cover toward "lean" until the choke stands wide open when cold.  You can drive it that way, but may have to pump the gas a little on a cold start, and it may be "cold natured" while running until it warms up a bit.  Hate to see that pretty Vicky not being driven.

John

Would something like this work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-CHOKE-STOVE-HEATER-TUBE-KIT-NIB_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33548QQihZ007QQitemZ170231070826QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Ebay item number: 170231070826

Or how hard is it to remove the pinched lines and replace with something like this:

http://www.tee-bird.com/catalog_product_detailed.cfm?id=12943

1955-56 Ford: Tube, intake manifold to choke, RH, 1956 V-8 4-bbl (includes 357890-S & 9242)

I can't see a lot of the detail of the choke stove, but it probably would work for you.  The three language instructions tell me they may still be available at your local parts store that handles the HELP brand of dodads.  The reproduction parts are meant to work with the original factory setup, which includes a tube pressed into the bottom of the intake to supply the heat.  I would say that tube is rusted out, that's why the others are pinched off, to stop the exhaust leak from them when the bottom one rusts out.  To replace that tube requires the intake manifold to be removed.  The pinched off tubes are press fitted into the elbows, the elbows are also press fitted into the cross tube in the bottom of the manifold.  Sometimes it's easier to pry/twist the elbows out of the manifold and working in a vise to get the tube out of the elbow.  If nothing else, they can be drilled out.

John in Selma, IN

Thanks again, I'll let you know how it works out.

I think I'll probably just pull the manifold so it will be easier and I'll have a better chance of not bending the tubes.  I also have the new carb insulator I want to put on so I'll just take a day when I get the parts and tear it all down and do it right.

I'll give them a call tomorrow and get the parts on the way.  If I do pull the intake, should I replace the gaskets? I assume so but the motor only has 1400 miles on it so do you think they may still be reusable?

Thanks again to all you for your advice, suggestions and wisdom.  I owe you all most of the credit in the restoration of this car, I can assure you it wouldn't be on the road without you

They also show the $40 carb spacer listed for PCV... John, is this the spacer you were talking about that might help with heat transference to the carb?  Or do you think that asbestos gasket I bought will do the trick?

The spacer I was referring to was the factory spacer.  It is 1/2" thick and made of a phenolic like material.  Your asbestos gasket would be a help.  I'm not sure what the pcv spacer is made of, but if it's aluminum it isn't nearly as effective as phenolic or asbestos.

John

Also it is 1", is that better or worse for performance than a 1/2".  No one has ever explained the purpose of a spacer to me  

Will the original air cleaner still clear the hood with a 1" spacer?

Thanks again guys!!