By oldcarmark - 17 Years Ago
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Hello all,If I want to install a 57-58 style Holley carb on my 56 292 4bbl do I also have to change the manifold?I know I have to replace distributor.What else is required as far as changing?Any input appreciated.Thanks Mark
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By Eddie Paskey - 17 Years Ago
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Hey Mark;; Casco has an adaptor that will allow you to install the new style carb to the older smaller manifold.. Hope this helps!! God Bless
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By GREENBIRD56 - 17 Years Ago
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You must have the "9425-A" four barrel manifold that fits the teapot? Look for a "9425-B" version (57 and later) that has the Holley 4150/4160 mounting pattern. Lately they've been selling for big bucks on e-bay - maybe someone on the site can fix you up for less. The four throttle bore holes in this "B" manifold will fit a Holley 390 cfm carb directly - but if you use a 600 cfm - you will either have to have the deck milled flat and the four holes bored out to match the bigger carb - or use a phenolic spacer / adapter to space it up a bit and smooth the air entry into the smaller holes. You can also get an adapter/spacer from Speedway to fit on your "A" manifold - I don't have the part number at hand - but its a decent way to get the newer style carb on your old style manifold (without big bucks).
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By speedpro56 - 17 Years Ago
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I'm with Steve on this one, go with the 57 & up B manifold and later distributor and see a REAL improvement in power and fuel milage. Just using an adaptor on the a manifold for a later carb wil be only a little better than the teapot because you will lose some of your cfms thru the adaptor thus keeping the engine from it's full potential.
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By oldcarmark - 17 Years Ago
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Hi Steve,What is the difference between the 4150 and 4160?You mention 390cfm and 600cfm carbs.I thought the 57 carb was a 4160 only?I am not familiar with the differences in the 57-up carb/manifold setup.I am just looking to replace this problem setup I have now.Not looking for highest performance.Is there a suggested combination for good everyday use?Any input appreciated.Thanks Mark
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 17 Years Ago
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Mark: Do you have the teapot fixed except for the off idle stumble? Maybe a swap to a later distributor will help that problem. You're going to swap it anyway when you swap carbs, so maybe try that first. John
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By GREENBIRD56 - 17 Years Ago
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The base plates of the Holley 4150/4160 carbs are basically the same layout - bore size at the throttle changes as the cfm rating increases - but the four screws that clamp it down on the manifold are in the same place. "In general" the Holley 4150 carbs have both a primary and a secondary metering block with removable jets (sandwiched between the fuel bowls and the main body) - and the 4160 is a "cheaper" version of the carb that uses a "metering plate" for the secondary fuel control rather than a "metering block". The cheapest easist simplest one to find is the "1850" vacuum secondary version (this "list number will be stamped on the front of the choke housing). It is rated at 600 cfm - a bit big for our applications - but not too big so long as the vacuum secondaries are kept under control.
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By pegleg - 17 Years Ago
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Strikes me that a mid 60's to 70's Autolite for a 289/302 would also work well. Many of those carbs on the earlier SBF were in the 450 to 500 cfm range. You should use a late model distributor (57 up) when you do this. If done well, you'll end up with better fuel mileage AND performance. Not a bad deal!
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By DANIEL TINDER - 17 Years Ago
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Guys,
I'm a bit curious re: the comments about 57-up distributors delivering better millage? My teapot/Loadomatic setup 292 gets mpg in low 20s, and I drive like a maniac. I thought the main advantage of the later dist. (aside from carb. options) was mainly the ease of re-curving for performance?
Is it the ability to run higher initial timing (and limit total advance) that gets you better mileage? Would it make up for the expected lower economy of a bigger carb?
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By 55Birdman - 17 Years Ago
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I have a 390 CFM carb and adapter for sale if you need one. I just took it off m ine to install trips. eadgpdhome@msn.com
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By speedpro56 - 17 Years Ago
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Here are some of the flow numbers on the holley 56 thru 58 ford carbs. !956 teapot 370 cfs, 56 lincoln teapot 390 cfms, 57 ford list 1273s 400 cfms 1958 ford 1551s approx 550 cfms being put on 332s and 352s. I personaly like how the 1958 carbs do on a little more than stock y being some increased air flow and better cams. The 57 and 58s are the 4150 design. These are some of the numbers I got from holley and Pony carbs. The 600s do seem to be a little big especially on a stock engine.
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By Ted - 17 Years Ago
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DANIEL TINDER (5/19/2008) Guys,
I'm a bit curious re: the comments about 57-up distributors delivering better millage? My teapot/Loadomatic setup 292 gets mpg in low 20s, and I drive like a maniac. I thought the main advantage of the later dist. (aside from carb. options) was mainly the ease of re-curving for performance? Is it the ability to run higher initial timing (and limit total advance) that gets you better mileage? Would it make up for the expected lower economy of a bigger carb?You're right in that the early setups are capable of very good fuel economy. Those original setups with the Load-O-Matic distributor in place are analagous to the speed density system Ford used for fuel injection control in the late Eighties before going to mass air. If any changes were made to the engine (ie. camshaft change) that affected the vacuum signal, then the engine just simply did not run right; Load-O-Matic and speed density systems are both similar in this regard. The late model carb and distributor setup is similar to the ‘mass air’ change and simply makes any modifications performed to the engine either transparent or easily adjusted for in regards to the tuneup. As a general rule, the Y’s like a lot of ignition advance for the best fuel economy.
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By oldcarmark - 17 Years Ago
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Hello Ted,Thats very interesting info.My 292 is completely stock with a Fordo.Initial advance is supposed to be 6 BTC.How far do you suggest I can advance that without creating a problem?Thanks Mark
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By DANIEL TINDER - 17 Years Ago
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Mark,
Unless you have a new dampner, and your timing pointer has been checked for TDC, the #s are meaningless.
Ignition timing by ear might be complicated with auto trans, as flooring it at low speed in high gear (to listen for pinging) would cause a downshift? (not my field of expertise)
If no audible ping on acceleration, then the other sign of too much initial advance with '55 Loadomatic is rough-running at low speed cruise. Not sure about the '56 double-diaphragm set-up.
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By pegleg - 17 Years Ago
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Dan, Only on the ThunderBirds. The car damper has the marks on the part of the damper that's not rubber mounted. Doesn't change. Larger carbs are not intrinsically bad for mileage. There were several different versions of the Holley 600, with varying primary sizes. If you pick out a Carb with small primaries you will be able to generate respectable mileage numbers. The Secondaries will not operate unless the throttle is floored and manifold vacuum rises to a point that demands more airflow. They don't operate very often on the street. Probably the biggest issue with the loadamatic is that nobody understands them anymore, and most of them no longer function as they were intended. Also most of us have issues with the Teapots and todays gas.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 17 Years Ago
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Frank: Not to belabor a point, but you have the damper info posted backwards. The passenger car marks are on the rubber mounted damper ring, the T-Bird marks are on the fixed, non-movable part of the pulley. Don't want everyone to assume their passenger damper can't slip. John in Selma, IN
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By Ted - 17 Years Ago
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oldcarmark (5/20/2008) Hello Ted,Thats very interesting info.My 292 is completely stock with a Fordo.Initial advance is supposed to be 6 BTC.How far do you suggest I can advance that without creating a problem?Thanks MarkAs Daniel mentions, the damper timing marks needs to be correct. But with that checking out, then the condition of the engine has much to do with how much more initial advance the older Load-O-Matics can handle. Simply said, the more worn the engine, the more initial advance that can be tolerated without detonation. This has to do with the vacuum signal being reduced as the engine wears and the advancing of the timing simply compensating for this. I visualize as much as 12° intial on a well worn engine where the vacuum signal is greatly reduced. If the timing chain is stretched, then the vacuum signal is also reduced which in turn would allow more igntion timing. Experimentation is the best solution but I’ve found that the factory settings typically give the best results on engines that are in good condition.
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By pegleg - 17 Years Ago
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John, Whoops, well you said I was a little backwards!
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By ejstith - 17 Years Ago
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well I am going through all of this too. I wandered back and forth between a Holly and a Edelbrock carb. I have almost decided on an Edelbrock 500 cfm carb. I got a manifold off of ebay with the big bolt pattern. I also got a 57 up distributor and just ordered a Mallory electronic conversion kit and a Mallory coil from Summit Racing. Now all I have to do is wait for all of this stuff and decide on a carb.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 17 Years Ago
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I finally ended up with a stock 9425-B manifold and a "new" factory rebuilt 525 Road Demon Jr. that I got off an e-bay store. Electric choke. $263.00 with shipping.... Installed a maodified 1/2" phenolic spacer to funnel the bigger carb throats into the smaller bores of the Holley base manifold. The 312 seems to like it and the only changes I've had to make are installing a set of steel needle and seat assemblies (.130) - and a stiffer vacuum secondary spring (the Holley black one). I believe she will make a good bit more top-end power if I take my spare manifold to the machine shop and (1) have the carb deck milled flat and (2) slot the two fore/aft throttle bores together side for side (so its like the Blue Thunder manifold). Then use a larger phenolic spacer that matches the Demon throttle diameters.
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By ejstith - 17 Years Ago
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You took it off to install what? Trips ?
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By 55Birdman - 17 Years Ago
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Yes I still have it . eadgpdhome@msn.com
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 17 Years Ago
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Brian: The all vacuum '56 distributor will not work properly with any but a '56 carb. The '57 and later distributors have both vacuum and mechanical advance, work much better. Actually, your '56 will run better with a later distributor and your '56 carb, and it isn't an expensive change. You'll need the later cap and rotor also. John in Selma, IN
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By Tom Compton - 17 Years Ago
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Rebuilt later distributors are available from several parts houses. NAPA is one. Most can order them. don't confuse the data entry guys at the parts house, just tell them it is for a 1964 F100 V-8. About $70. TC
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