Holly 4160 Jets


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By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago
Howdy all,



I have a Holly 4160 (vacuum secondary) to put on my recently rebuilt (balanced/ported) 292.



Does anyone know of a good jet size to start with? (I haven't had a look at what's in there yet.)





Thanks,
By Pete 55Tbird - 17 Years Ago
Hi; You asked about jets in a Holley 4160. I have had two 4160 carbs model 1850 AAS (Ford kick-down linkage) that I bought new and used on my 312 right out of the box. I believe I am now running 57 jets and the stock secondary metering plate and a 6.5 power valve. I live at sea level. The Ford shop manual for 1957 shows 55 jets primary, 53 secondary and a 8.5 power valve in a 4150 Holley. These are very forgiving carbs. Pete
By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago
Hi Pete,



Thanks for the quick reply,



This 4160 came was on a 460 I had in my boat. It's stock OMC with the electric choke and vacuum secondary



I sold the engine and will be selling the OMC King Cobra "stuff" but I am going to keep a few things from the 460 like the carb and the remote oil filter hardware. I think I'll use the remote oil filter mount on the 292 along with a nice oil cooler inline.



I did a complete rebuild on the carb and used it for a summer in the boat and it ran more or less ok... (the engine had a flat cam so it would only turn about 4200 at WOT but otherwise ran ok)



I didn't look very close at the jets I just assumed that I would have to change them. Maybe they'll be ok for the 292. It's nice to know a starting point though. I don't want the engine to run too rich or lean from the start...





Thanks again,






By speedpro56 - 17 Years Ago
4160s came in different sizes, the 292 will not want as much fuel as a 460. Here again some big blocks came with small carbs if high rpms was not an issue. Generally speaking stock 292s dont respond as well with larger carbs unless they have been built up from there original stock condition. (porting heads, intake manifold reworked, a little more camshaft etc.) The original 4150s in 57 ford 312s (1273s) were around 400 cfms and a 600 cfm carb as you can see is quite a bit larger but with the smaller jets you should be able to make it work. However from red to red light figuratively speeking the 400 cfm will probably respond quicker.
By pegleg - 17 Years Ago
Check the LIST number stamped on the air horn. Front of the area where the choke plate lives.

Either got ot the Holley site and do a search for that list number, or go to your local speed shop and check their reference material. Find the original sizes for everything and start there. You wil probably find it to be slightly rich with that size. But at least you'll start in the ball park and not hurt the engine.

By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago
Thanks,



I don't want to "over-fuel" the engine. I wanted to use it sine I have it in rebuilt condx and it's in such good shape.



I'm not really worried much about "stoplite to stoplite" performance....I'm not sure that's very appropriate driving a Flatbed F-600!!



This is the stock carb that came on the OMC 460. The max rpm for this engine installation was 4400-4800 according to my OMC service manual.

I'll check out that other info. I didn't realize there was so much online info for Holley carbs.






By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago
Ok,
well the LIST number is 50399

I went to the Holley site and looked at the exploded view of the carb.
http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/4150-4160%20Exploded%20View.pdf

It appears that mine is probably going to be somewhat different. There's NO secondary jets, power valve, and the float levels are not (externally) adjustable.

I had a look at the primary jets and they are numbered #731......... I thought the jet numbering was 40-60 etc.

The actual ford part number above the LIST number is E6JL-9510-F8

Maybe it's not going to be possible to use this carburetor.

I did a little calculation on the Holley site and it indicated that I need an approx 450 CFM carb.

Maybe I should go back to the 2 bbl carb.

It would be nice to use this carb. It's like new.


..........After reading a little on the Holley site, it appears that internally adjustable floats are ok. and the secondary metering plate is replaceable. I'm having a little trouble identifying the carb though. I couldn't find the LIST number anywhere. Maybe I should call them...

By speedpro56 - 17 Years Ago
The reason for suggesting a smaller carb (400 cfm),  The cleaner the engine burns the fuel the better the gas mileage, the quicker the response thus more lowend POWER. I had a beautiful new 770 avenger holley to put on my t-bird ( 312 strocker ), it was too large so I sold it to my brother for his 428 cu in ford engine and now I have a 670 avenger on it and as it performs better than the 770,BigGrin I am much happier.
By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago




Well,





Of course, I want to be happy too! Tongue



I do have a Holley 2bbl and a Ford 2 bbl carb. I'll look them over and see where I should go. My 2bbl manifold has a cracked bolt hole in the front. I may have to try to weld it I guess. Now is the time to try out some of that nickel TIG rod I've been wanting to try I guess...



I'm sure I can sell this carb. It's in pretty good shape. and it IS a marine carb. They're usually in demand.....(well maybe back when people could afford to operate boats....)

















speedpro56 (6/8/2008)
The reason for suggesting a smaller carb (400 cfm), The cleaner the engine burns the fuel the better the gas mileage, the quicker the response thus more lowend POWER. I had a beautiful new 770 avenger holley to put on my t-bird ( 312 strocker ), it was too large so I sold it to my brother for his 428 cu in ford engine and now I have a 670 avenger on it and as it performs better than the 770,BigGrin I am much happier.
By pegleg - 17 Years Ago
HT,

      Look at the FRONT of the carburettor. The choke tower is the area at the top that the choke plate is mounted in. The front of the tower is the higher side, on the diver's side front you should find numbers stamped, they may be a Ford number or a Holley number, but either way that's your list number.

      The 731's are close tolerance 73's and that does sound big. HOWEVER, the factory jetting is established on a flow bench and by testing, they know what they're doing. I would NOT deviate more than 3 or 4 sizes either way without wondering what else is wrong. As far as the secondary plate goes, they're easy to change, but don't mess with it until you see what you have ON THE ENGINE. Don't guess. 

By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago
Frank,



I'm guessing that jets that size might be correct for a 460 but wouldn't they be rich for a much smaller displacement engine?



I suppose I could pick up a couple of smaller sets so I can try them. I may just give Holley a call and ask them if they have a suggested starting point. At this point I just want it to run good. It's definitely NOT going to be a hotrod!




By Ted - 17 Years Ago
HT32BSX115 (6/9/2008)
I'm guessing that jets that size might be correct for a 460 but wouldn't they be rich for a much smaller displacement engine?

Like Frank mentions, baseline jetting should be the stock jets for that particular carb.  Using the jet sizes for the stock 1957 List #1273 Holley carb as a baseline for anything other than this simply doesn’t work.  As an example, there are a multitude of different list number 600 cfm Holleys out there and most have different baseline jetting requirements.  The air bleed sizes dictate this to a large degree and because of this, baseline jetting for each will vary.

 

And as Gary brings up, a smaller sized carb will have a higher velocity which in turn promotes improved atomization of the fuel (smaller droplets) which in turn will burn more of the fuel.  A carburetor that’s larger will have a slower velocity which will have weaker signal in which to draw fuel through its circuitry and also atomize the fuel at the venturi.  As a rule of thumb, increased velocity equates to increased torque.

 

Jet sizing is more related to the venturi size and the associated air bleeds within the carburetor and not the size of the engine for which the carb is being installed on.  The vacuum signal as well as the exhaust flow of the engine on which the carb is being installed on my dictate a given amount of jet change from baseline but there is no rule of thumb saying bigger or smaller jets when switching the same carb on a different sized engine.  If a carb is specifically designed for a small cubic inch engine and is then re-installed on a much larger one, then the potential for it running rich at idle is high due to the fuel transition slot being more exposed.  The first thought is to put in smaller jets but this simply puts the engine in a lean condition at the higher rpms.  Likewise, taking a carb designed for a large cubic inche engine and reinstalling on a small one will have the transition slots not exposed enough and creates a situation where a dead spot off of idle exists.  In both of these cases, more most be done to the carbs than a simple jet change to address the different issues.

By pegleg - 17 Years Ago
HT,

      NO!  The carb doesn't care what size the engine is. It only reads airflow. As Ted mentions there's a lot of factors that affect the mixture, but the jetting is based strictly on airflow through the venturii, period.

                                           Frank

By DANIEL TINDER - 17 Years Ago
This discussion brings up an interesting point:



Before exhaust analyzers/floor dynos/drag strip timing were commonly available, people would choose jet sizes by reading the plugs. Yet, proper plug heat-range selection is likely dependent on a correctly jetted carb setup. It's the old "chicken or egg/catch 22" story.
By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago
I guess I have to agree with that. (now that I think about it, why would any engine run significantly richer or leaner than any other engine)



The carb wouldn't really "know" what's bolted up under it it only knows airflow thru it....



The primary venturi size appears about the same as the 2bbl Holley I have that came off the 239 I removed from the truck.



The other different thing about it is that it is a "marine" carb. I don't know why that would be a problem though...
By GREENBIRD56 - 17 Years Ago
I think that the 600 cfm 4 barrel set-up suggested by Pete is right on - mine had #58 primaries in it and I was working my way down (312 motor). When that front barrel is wide open (the mechanical primary) the fuel flow is the sum of the metering jets and the 6.5 power valve. Modifying the power valve flow orfice (in the metering block) is the arena of the real carb pros - leave it alone.

Pete didn't mention which of the vacuum secondary springs he's got in there but....get a stiff one - the 292 won't need the extra capacity at quite the same engine speed as your old 460. I usually just put the Holley heavy black spring in there and worry about opening the thing quicker somewhere off in the future.

The four barrel will look better on your toy anyway!.......

By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago
I think that thing is going to look pretty good under the hood.



Yellow 292 with black accys and ceramic coated rams horns.