Holley 4000 numbers

Holley 4000 numbers

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By Rusty_S85 - 7 Years Ago

Ok, i need some help. I have titled my 56 fairlane and want to start driving her. How ever a cheap way to correct my problem is to remove the 2100 carb and put the original intake and holley 4000 back on to set timing where it needs to be.

Problem is i cant wait 8 weeks to mail my carb off to have it professionally restored by the old carb doctor. So i am looking at reman carbs to get by for now.

My old carb is part number ECZ-9510-M, which my parts and illustration guide says is for a 292 or 312. The list number is 1161-2 which i find out is a 312 list number.

My set up is a 292 with ford-o-matic. I figure this is the original carb to the car. I wasnt able to locate a reman 1161-2 carb but i did find a 1161-1 carb reman for a respectful price.

Question is whats the difference between 1161-1 and 1161-2? I found the 1161-1 is also stated as a 312 carb but nothing about automatic or standard.

Im wondering if i buy the 1161-1 to get by with for now if it will work on my application to drive around some till i qm qble to mail my 1161-2 carb off?

By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago

Autolite 2100? The other option is to get a mechanical advance distributor. That is what's required to run a newer carb. The original vacuum advance system will not work. There are a couple options for new or upgraded. You may also find good used or even NOS. Off the shelf rebuilds probably aren't an option at this time, given the issues with Cardone, since almost any rebuild will be by Cardone, no matter how it is branded.

By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago

There's 5 Distributors available from Someone in the Classifieds Postings. If He still has any. Surprised no One is grabbing at least One while they are available.

By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago

Rusty.

I. My '49-'59 Ford Text Catalog also shows your ECZ 9510-M Holley 4000 as being used on 292 and 312 engines in '56.

- My recollection is that the difference in suffix numbers that you have inquired about refers to one originally being intended for standard or standard with overdrive transmissions while the other being intended for use with FordoMatic transmissions.

- The only difference in the outfitting of the two different carburetor numbers that I am aware of is the installation of an anti-stall dashpot on the carburetor used with the FordoMatic transmission.

- The component parts listing difference when the carb is used with the FordoMatic transmission is the addition of (1) anti-stall dashpot, (1) bracket to support (hold) the anti-stall dashpot, and a part number for the (2) screws used to attach the anti-stall dashpot bracket to the aluminum base of the carburetor.

II. Oldcarmark and Charlie have raised the question as to what ignition distributor is presently installed on the engine.

- I wouldn't be surprised IF the vehicle still has it's original vacuum only distributor ignition advance system.

- IF it is the original distributor, you won't have to change it IF you are using a Holley 4000 carburetor.

Hope this helps. Smile

By Rusty_S85 - 7 Years Ago

charliemccraney (10/24/2018)

I heard about that, for me i already got my name on a dual reservoir vacuum advance for my dist. I got the original intake and holley 4000 but i hate to simply throw a kit in it and hope for the best. Im putting trust in what the old carb doctor told me as he came highly recommended for rebuilding theses. He told me these castings have issues with warpage.

So instead of letting my car sit 8 weeks for his turn around i found a carb place online that sells the carbs rebuilt out right. Just trying to see how their 1161-1 list holley 4000 compares to my 1161-2 list holley.

By Rusty_S85 - 7 Years Ago

oldcarmark (10/24/2018)

There's 5 Distributors available from Someone in the Classifieds Postings. If He still has any. Surprised no One is grabbing at least One while they are available.

Thqnks for the reply. The guy at larrys already told me id be looking at around a 4 week turn around for any dist i send in to be rebuilt. Seemed my new route is faster as ill have the dual reservoir advance in a few weeks and all i have to get is a reman carb and could be driving in November.

By Rusty_S85 - 7 Years Ago

NoShortcuts (10/24/2018)

Its the original load o matic. Just had a single reservoir can installed and timing set to 0 degrees initial as the 2100 carb and 1961 intake that repair shop installed in the 80s was throwing timing to full advance at idle.

My quick fix was to be a 57 dist but its not quick as i have to source and mail out to rebuild.

If the only difference is the use of the dash pot then thats no problem i have all that and can swap it from my original carb to the new one. I was concerned that maybe there was something internally different either spark delay valve wise or power valve wise.

If a H suffix will work in place of a M suffix with transfering the dash pot pieces then that would be great for me.

I can get my car driveable by thanksgiving and mail out my original M suffix carb to the old carb doctor for restoration after i move.

By Rusty_S85 - 7 Years Ago

oldcarmark (10/24/2018)

The Distributors for sale in the Classifieds are rebuilt and ready to go according to the Seller. Even if You do use an original 4000 the later Distributors can be used and will give better driveabilty than the original Loadomatic. I can't tell from your Post if You are trying to restore to Original or just looking to get it on the Road now. I have Personally done what You are doing with rebuilt original 4000 and Loadomatic. I now have a newer 390 Holley and later 57+ Distributor. The difference in the way it runs is like Night and Day. In 1957 Ford changed to the now Common 4150 4160 Style Holley Carb and Dual Advance Distributor. The 4150 Holley Carb was actually designed and built for 1957 Fords. 60 Years later the same basic Design are still being used I have done these upgrades on 3 Cars and I would never go back to 56 Setup. Much more reliable and a lot more Fun to drive.

For me ideally i want to put the car back like it was when new. My grandfather bouth this car new. So for me its more of a having it function like new.

I did plan on some upgrades such as i personally rebuilt a double action fuel pump to make the vacuum wipers safer.

Im also looking at running a petronix to eliminate points. But i have done that yet. Im kind of tempted to run a 57 dist with the holley 4000. But in the end im really trying to make it hard for people to tell whats not correct and what is.

My main goal is to put the car on the road by thanksgiving. Will give me time to find other problems i need to address before i go to my christmas party at work.

By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago

Rusty. Hmmmm . . . The '56 Holley 4000s supplied two different vacuum signals to two diaphragm chambers on the '56 FoMoCo LoadoMatic distributors. One vacuum line came from above the idle adjusting screws on the front of the carb (directly under the choke plates) and the other vacuum line came from a brass fitting attached to the carburetor base on the rear of the carb adjacent to where the vacuum controlled secondary plates are located.

Someone may have substituted the single chamber diaphragm chamber on your distributor to accommodate the single vacuum take-off found on the 2100 carb. that the shop installed.

In the '49-'59 Ford Car Text Catalog, the following carb numbers are listed for the 292 & 312 application using the same carb. parts list number (#37 breakdown)
ECJ 9510-U or V
ECZ 9510-G or H
ECZ 9510-L or M

Having the correct vacuum advance chamber on your '56 distributor may be just as important to having the correct vacuum lines coming from the '56 Holley 4000 that you install.

Hope this helps! Smile

By 1960fordf350 - 7 Years Ago

Do some fleebay shopping. Get a newer style distributor. Then you can buy brand new Motorcraft knockoff carb for $75. I got the bottom plate for my Holley 2300 for $24 with free shipping. Part came in 2 days.

By Rusty_S85 - 7 Years Ago

NoShortcuts (10/24/2018)

Correct. Im getting a rebuilt dual diaphragm advance that is proper for a 56 4v set up. I think they used a optional 56 2v advance as this looks like a late model advance with a single built in nipple.

Im hopeful they didnt screw anything up hook up wise. I know its a pre 57 dist as i have a 54-56 cap, rotor, points and condenser installed.

But the advance looks like what i see photo wise for a single 2v advance for a 56 with a built in nipple.

Shouldnt be hard to pull it off to swap the correct one in.

Only thing i have left to get is the reman carb from performance carbs the metal fuel line as mine was chopped and a intake gasket set. I already have the dual action fuel pump vacuum lines, the thermostat housing, the 45 degree angled hot water valve fitting to make this swap. I even have a rebuild kit with brass float and dashpot for my 1161-2 carb. Just prefert to let a pro restore it and replace all worn parts including bushings vs me just tossing a rebuild kit in.

By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago

Rusty. Oldcarmark's suggestion of using a later '57 or up ignition distributor on your '56 is a very good one. The '55, '56 vacuum advance only system used with Load-O-Matic distributors can be made to work, but they can be finicky or problematic.

You could use the later distributor and simply not connect the vacuum connections from the Holley 4000 that you use. Use brass fittings to block the existing take-off connections on the Holley 4000 and on the distributor vacuum advance chamber. This will work satisfactorily, but will not give you as good gas mileage as you could have or prefer. What you would have by doing this is centrifugal advance only.

Another approach would be to install the '57 or later distributor and have the '56 Holley 4000 carburetor vacuum signal take-off modified to provide the proper vacuum signal for the newer distributor. By also supplying the proper vacuum signal to the later distributor, it would increase the ignition advance when engine load is reduced while traveling at a uniform speed in city or highway driving. This results in improved gas mileage.

Ted Eaton has done a step-by-step article on how to accomplish the needed modification to the Holley 4000 carburetor body. Click the link below . . .
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/2013/03/02/modifying-the-holley-teapot-four-barrel-carb-for-late-model-distributors/

Whatever ignition distributor you end-up using, the '56 Load-O-Matic or a '57 and later combination centrifugal AND vacuum advance unit, find a shop that is able to measure and adjust the ignition advance curve of the distributor. Both the vacuum and the centrifugal systems can be adjusted / calibrated to accomplish optimum advance yielding both good engine performance AND fuel economy.

Hope this helps!

By paul2748 - 7 Years Ago

I don't know what the difference is between the two different list numbers, but the one you plan to use should work out ok.

I have a 56 Bird. The carb that came on it was a sedan carb (ECZ prefix number). It ran very good on my 312 Bird (Professionally rebuilt). I found an original carb for a 56 TBird (ECJ prefix), had it rebuilt by the same rebuilder and it ran pretty much the same so I doubt you will notice any difference between the two carbs you plan to use.

A lot of these guys want you to go with the later (57 and Up) distributor, but if the carb is working up to snuff and the load-0-matic is the same, you will have no problems with it running correctly. I acknowledge that the 57 and up distributor is a better choice especially when running a new carb, but with the stock carb and your desire to return it to factory specs your combination should work very well.

Repo hard lines for the 56 dual vacuum distributor are available as well as the special fitting that goes in the rear of the carb. The Tbird parts suppliers have these lines and I assume some one like Dennis Carpenter has them as well.

I will acknowledge that in my 56 Bird, I am running a 57 distributor with a modified T-pot..

Rusty_S85 (10/24/2018)

By KULTULZ - 7 Years Ago

HOLLEY Service Letter - OCT 1955 - 1956 FORD - MERC Power Pack Carbs

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/22685871-6a32-4d64-8d55-1e19.jpg

By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago

Kultulz. THANKS for coming in with the Holley service letter on the Holley 4000 application. That should give Rusty peace of mind. Smile

By KULTULZ - 7 Years Ago

NO PROBLEM -

THANX for the THANX!

By Ted - 7 Years Ago

Kultulz. Thanks for sharing. That’s a great piece of information in that Holley Service Letter. With the mention of the Power Pack setup, it would appear to be an addendum to what was taking place for the 4V equipped production cars.

With that said, here’s the information from the Holley numerical listing:
List 1161 carbs are for 312 Ford and Mercury engines.
List 1162 carbs are for 292 Ford and Mercury engines
List 1163 carbs are for 292 Thunderbird engines.
List 1164 carbs are for 312 Thunderbird engines.

The numerical listing only goes into minor detail on the suffix numbers but a suffix number change doesn’t change its intended application. I’ve another Holley manual that goes into the specifics of the suffixes or dash numbers at the ends of the list numbers but those represent either differences in automatic and standard transmissions or represents a change that was made mid-year during actual production. A list number with no dash number would represent the original version. In some cases, I’ve found a difference in suffix number simply indicating a mid-year production change in power valve and/or jet sizing change.

For all intent and purposes, the 292 and 312 carbs are interchangeable with no differences in drivability. The restoration people do like the exact carburetor in place but for the rest of us, anything that looks the same is close enough.

By KULTULZ - 7 Years Ago

"Kultulz. Thanks for sharing. That’s a great piece of information in that Holley Service Letter. With the mention of the Power Pack setup, it would appear to be an addendum to what was taking place for the 4V equipped production cars."

DAMN! A THUMBS-UP FROM TOP BRASS. THANX!