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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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I have a '55 Monterey with a stock 292. Two years ago I put it into storage to pursue another project. When I last drove it two years ago it ran perfect. Today, I found the engine to be locked up. I pulled all plugs and the front left 3 and the front right 4 plugs were very rusty. The other plugs were absolutely normal. After soaking the cylinders with WD 40 and Marvel Mystery Oil, I got the engine to turn over with the use of a socket and bar on the crank pulley bolt.
Also, the front cross member on the left side and all under the engine was wet with antifreeze and for the life of me I can't see where it came from. Absolutely not from the radiator or lower hose.
Here comes the questions.
1. Any ideas where the leak may be?
2. How could the leak cause rusty pistons and cylinders?
3. Although the engine now turns over fine by hand, has internal damage been done?
Because sometime in the last 2 years I lost all the antifreeze, is there a chance the block is now cracked. (I live high in the mountains of AZ and the last two winters have had days below zero).
Any assistance you fellers and gals can give me would certainly be appreciated.
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By MoonShadow - 17 Years Ago
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If you didn't have any water in it lack of antifreeze shouldn't cause it to crack. Sounds like you lost a freeze plug on one side of the block. Shouldn't be a big deal. What do you have planned for the engine? Do you hope to run it as is or go through it first? Makes a difference in where you go from here. Chuck in NH
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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The freeze plug was my first thought also, but how could that cause moisture in the cylinders?
I would like to just run it the way it is and not go through the engine if possible.
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By Joe Johnston - 17 Years Ago
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Before just trying to start it and see what happens, do a compression check and if acceptable, fill it up with water and see where it runs out. Fixing the leak may be simple or complicated, but needs to be done. Once running, do another compression check in a couple of weeks and compare. You can always tear it down and rebuild it, but it may be OK. Good luck J
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By bird55 - 17 Years Ago
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Check the dipstick to see if it has water droplets on it or moisture. Or if the oil is milky=water in oil. not good.
Sounds to me like it may have got to cold and a head gasket went bad or worse you have a crack somewhere, block or head-leaked into a cylinder(s) I wouldn't run it if you find water in the oil.
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By Ted - 17 Years Ago
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Ditto on what Joe and Al say. They have just about nailed down what to do as a starting point. The leak can potentially be at the water pump so just look at the weep hole on the underside of the pump and see if you can see a trail where coolant has leaked from there. As far as moisture in the cylinders, there’s a strong chance it’s a result of condensation if the Merc was stored in a non-heated garage. As long as the antifreeze was well mixed in the engine and simply leaked out, then no freeze cracking is expected to take place. And there’s a chance that you’ll bend or pop some pushrods out of place when you do the compression check as the same moisture can attack the valve guides. This will require pulling the valve covers and rocker arm assemblies and then liberally lubing the guides while tapping the valves with a brass hammer. That’s the cheap fix.
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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I already checked the dipstick and the oil is clear with no indication of water there. I will do a compression check next. I can understand one head gasket leaking but the chances of 2 are a little remote. Anywho, I had no intentions of starting it until I was certain the engine was spinning with no resistance.
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By Mark R - 17 Years Ago
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Along with all the good advice you have received on your initial concerns, you should probably prime the engine oil system before start up. Consider removing the valve covers, pulling the distributor and, using a drill with a 1/4" extended socket, turn the oil pump counter clockwise until you see good oil flow at the heads. It is an easy process and may prevent or indicate a problem. You'll probably have to use a socket extension to reach the oil pump so be sure to wrap some duct tape around the socket/extension joint. You don't want the socket to pull off the extension when you extract it.
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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Let me tell you where I'm at with this. I filled the radiator with water and looked for a leak. I found one underneath the water pump but not the weep hole. The gasket was split at the bottom of the pump. Ok, that takes care of the leaking problem. I ordered a new one 'cause the vanes in the pump I removed were very badly rusted.
As for the rusty cylinders, I can only assume the cause was condensation caused by an extended storage. I pressurized the radiator and there was no pressure loss. I also pressurized the cylinders and there were no bubbles in the radiator.
Is it fair to now assume that my two problems were in no way related?
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By ejstith - 17 Years Ago
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I put a 429 in a '67 Ford F-250 one time. When I got the motor from the junk yard a couple of cylinders had water in them. The first thing I did was let the water out. Bad mistake. As soon as the air hit it the rings rusted to the cylinder walls and froze up. I had it all under a tree with a come-a-long hooked to a big branch and the other end hooked to a breaker bar on the crank bolt. I sprayed a bunch of CRC in the cylinders and then pulled it almost off of the ground with the contraption. Sometime during the night it broke loose and was fine the next day. I got it all done, new plugs etc, cranked it up and it ran fine for many years after that ..
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By Ted - 17 Years Ago
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55Monterey (8/19/2008)
I filled the radiator with water and looked for a leak. I found one underneath the water pump but not the weep hole. The gasket was split at the bottom of the pump. Ok, that takes care of the leaking problem. As for the rusty cylinders, I can only assume the cause was condensation caused by an extended storage. I pressurized the radiator and there was no pressure loss. I also pressurized the cylinders and there were no bubbles in the radiator. Is it fair to now assume that my two problems were in no way related? With the water drained from the engine, it’s more prone to condensation from within as it doesn’t have the coolant to act as a temperature damper or buffer to slow down temperature changes. So the two problems are semi-related where the leaking anti-freeze allowed for increased condensation amounts within the cylinders of the engine. Condensation was likely worse on those cylinders that had an open intake or exhaust valve as those cylinders would be in effect be ‘breathing’ as the atmospheric pressure changed.
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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Ted, Just as you suggested earlier, I pulled the valve covers to insure all was well with the valve train and my worst fears were realized. I now have 3 pushrods far down into the bores. I was able to retrieve one with a magnet stick and it was straight and true. I didn't bother yet with the other two cause after seeing what was going on in there, I got kinda sick and cleaned up my mess and called it a day.
I am not so sure now that I didn't have a problem with the valves just before I put it into storage. I was getting some fuel spitting from the tailpipes. Not much mind you, but enough to catch my attention.
What would you suggest be my next course of action? I really need help here. I am in no way an engine guy and I live in a Podunk town with only one service garage.
HELP!
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By Doug T - 17 Years Ago
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In your somewhat isolated situation and assuming you are not planning on racing or long distance high speed driving, I would try to get the engine running unless you are prepared for a complete rebuild. As others have said some rust in the cyl's isn't the worst thing that could be wrong. The Cyl walls are the most likely parts to have rust since there was very litle oil there when you shut it down. This is not the case with bearings cam timing chain etc. As Ted has suggested rap each valve with a soft hammer to be sure it is free. At this time check all valve springs to be sure none are broken . Also if your magnet isn't strong enough to lift a pushrod then bend a piece of coathanger wire to just slip around the head of the pushrod and lift it out with that. Don't jam the PR down with the magnet, they can wedge into the hole sometimes and be really annoying to get out. I would also take the rocker arm assemblies off and make sure all all rockers rotate on the shaft and the oil holes are clear in shaft. Also check the surface that contacts the valve on each rocker. This should be a smooth contour but is very common to have a depression warn into this surface. Such a depression makes adjusting the valves almost impossible. It is possible to grind the surface down to the depression so that the feeler gauge can get directly between the valve and rocker. This is also a good time to clean out the black sludge that may be in the heads and rocker arm covers. Be sure the drain holes at the back of the heads are clear. This can be a problem because the top rear head bolt runs right through the drain hole. If it is really gunked up a lot you can remove the one head bolt and run a bore brush through the hole. Of course you need to re torque the head bolt after this cleaning. I am not exactly recommending this but I have done it and didn't have a problem. As you put the push rods and rockers back use a lot a fresh oil poured liberally over the valves rockers and pushrods. After you get it running check that there is oil coming out the copper colored overflow tubes in each rocker assembly and that each rocker is getting oil. You can still have a lot of little problems such as bad ignition wires bad valve stem seals but if you put it away with the mechanicals ok then they still are.
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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I used a stainless dental pick to recover the rest of the pushrods. It worked on one try! Now I have several valves that are STUCK. No matter how I try, I am unable to loosen them up. I sprayed a concoction of WD 40 and Marvel Mystery Oil on the stickers. Is there anything else I can do?
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By bird55 - 17 Years Ago
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ok, so you're making some progress. try using a wooden mallet or rest a block of wood on each of the valve ends and tap on them to loosen with a hammer. be gentle. you'll hear the change in sound of the loosened ones..they will spring downward. The wd-40 concoction will work given some time. but no garantees. just takes some patience.
get that part done first, then we'll work thru the next stuff.
by the way where is this podunk town anyway? I think I live in one too! 
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By Jim Rowe - 17 Years Ago
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I thought I would throw in my two cents.
WD-40 is not a rust dissolving product. It is a water displacing product. The water is gone and rust is left.
I would not use Marvel Oil for this, yes it is an upper cylinder lube but not really for rust.
Use PB Blaster, it can be found at any auto parts store. Buy a spray can use it and let it soak down the valve stems. As has been said use a soft dead blow hammer or block of wood and hammer. They will come free.
PB Blaster down the cylinders will also free the rings. The stuff smells bad but works Great!
Good luck
Jim
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 17 Years Ago
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Something I have found that releases rust very well is used, old non-silicone brake fluid. New stuff out of the bottle doesn't work very well. Must be the dissolved water in the old stuff that helps. I have put it on old exhaust U clamp nuts and after a few minutes backed them right off. Today I had some bolts on the hood hinges of my '53 F350 that acted like they were going to twist off, put some brake fluid on them and they backed right off with a short end wrench. Just my 2 cents. John in Selma, IN
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By Ted - 17 Years Ago
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Another good penetrant for frozen or rusty parts is a spray called Rust-Solv. Made by Aervoe Industries Inc., Gardnerville, NV.
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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Ok guys. Need your assistance again. I hosed down the valve train several times but good with PB Blaster. I have 4 valves stuck open.I loosened up the rockers for the stuck valves and removed the pushrods. Light to moderate tapping on the valves have done no good. I also shot a goodly amount into the spark plug holes. Is there anyway possible to rig something up to pull the valves up? I am about at wits end.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 17 Years Ago
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If all else fails then you could try to fill the cylinder with a length of nylon rope. Hand turn the engine and with the rope between the top of the piston and the bottom of the valve it will exert upward force. That or a bigger hammer. Pete
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By aussiebill - 17 Years Ago
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Hi guys, sounds like theres progress, could i suggest when spraying the valve stem area with all types of hopefully release agents etc, try and lift the rubber umbrella seal up the valve stem as far as possble to let the oils run down the stem and into guide area, otherwise the seal does its job and keeps most of the penetrants out. OR If the rockers are off, remove the valve spring and the seal, i,m sure they are never going to fall down, it will help.! I,ve done this many times. The key word here is PATIENCE ! They will free up! I had old Oliver70 tractor been in paddock for 50 years and frozen up, i had head off, bores soaking in all sorts of oils etc to loosen up, but everyday i would just hit down on the frozen piston with a block of hardwood, just 1 hit per day and eventually it broke free. Taught me Patience!. Good luck !Best regards Aussie bill. Warning! they are coming!
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By 56fairlanepost - 17 Years Ago
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living in az,i know the past summers and winters have been less than forgiving.just my 2 cents,i'd locate a bore scope from the local white mountain ford dealer up there and see if you could borrow it.pull all plugs and look in the cylinders to see just how bad they are contaminated.i would strongly recommend against putting something in the cylinder and turning it over.that may cause more damage than you want to get into.worst case senerio may be pulling the heads for further inspection.at least then you could tear down the heads and clean up the valves.something else you may want to consider is the fatige factor to the valve being subjected to contamination for a long period of time.good luck.jim in the valley
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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I hate to beat a dead horse but I need more advise. PLEASE!
I removed the 5,6,7,8 head for closer inspection. First of all, I found the exhaust manifold bolts extremely loose if it makes any difference in my problem. The valves on 5,6,7 were very rusty and stuck. Amazingly, the cylinders weren't too bad...at least in my opinion. I wet vacuumed out the crud and wiped the walls. Then sprayed them with PB Blaster which took off a lot more grime. I can still feel very remote roughness near the top of the bores. A good stiff wire brush and more Blaster cleaned it up pretty well.
My question for you guys is: If I find the passenger side head and cylinder in the same shape as the driver's side, would you be inclined to get the heads rebuilt and see what happens or just bite the bullet and tear the whole engine down or replace it? I know it is hard to give good advise just by my description!
I am still unsure of how the moisture got into the heads to begin with. It was running well when I put it away two years ago.
I am open to any and all advise. Thanks.
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By bird55 - 17 Years Ago
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You're not beating a dead horse, you're going to bring it back to life-if you are willing to stay after it.
Since you went ahead and removed the head you might as well remove the other side.
A picture of the heads and chambers, cylinders etc. would sure be helpful here.
Then you'll get some better advice.
The corrosion at the top of each cylinder might just be the ridge(the top of the wall where the rings don't make contact).
Once you remove the other head, and check out the walls with a similar process, you may be able to turn the engine over.
Again, how about some photos-much easier to asses the situation and make a judgement call.
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By 56fairlanepost - 17 Years Ago
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i'd pull the other head;inspect the other cylinders;clean them as you did before and turn the engine over by hand;also rub some oil over the cylinder walls liberally and have the heads worked over at the machine shop.They can inspect the heads for any damage and replace the valves and make sure there is no damage to the valve guides,then you should be good to go.jim in the valley
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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Oh, now that I removed the left head and removed the pushrods from all cylinders, the engine can be turned over very freely!!! Now that I looked closely at the #8 bore which is clean, the roughness is also at the top of that one too.
About how much can I expect to pay to have the heads reworked? Or should I just look for another set?
And no, I am not giving up on it. I will persist, but I don't want to throw good money away.
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By 56fairlanepost - 17 Years Ago
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Glad to hear it turns freely;that's a good sign.here again i'd suggest oiling down the cylinder walls to protect them while it is apart.As far as machine work goes,i'd do some shopping around.I think it is going to depend on how much of the head assy can be saved.I've delt with Bailey's machine shop on No. Country Club in Mesa, Az with good results,but i don't know what kind of distance that would be for you to drive.They have always been fair to me.Phone is 480-962-9756.At the very least they may be able to give a quote for a general idea.jim in the valley
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By 46yblock - 17 Years Ago
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There sure is a lot of good advice above. I live in Oregon where it is cold, wet and rainy 6 months out of the year. Due to worry about condensation and corrosioin in my motor in the winter months, and having it in a non heated enclosure. I keep a heat lamp underneath it with an automatic on off timer.
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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UPDATE: I pulled the right head and found it to be much better than the left. The intake valve on the #1 cylinder was rusty and stuck but I can move it with a hardwood handle and a BFH. All other valves are free moving and the cylinder bores are clean. Once again, the exhaust manifold bolts were very loose if it should make any difference in why I got moisture within. I see no obvious indication of head gasket failure. At this point I can only assume that the block is sound and reworking the heads will cure my problem.
Any last thoughts guys before I bury this dead horse?
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By Pete 55Tbird - 17 Years Ago
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A few thoughts for you to consider. If you are only going to drive a few times a month and never race why not just call some machine shops in your area and see what they charge for a stock rebuild. The last heads I had done (stock 302) were around $200 PLUS parts. Have the head surface checked for straightness and lay a metal straightedge on the block two surfaces. I think I remember you are in a remote area so maybe a set of used heads from a reliable source could be cheaper. Watch out for shipping costs, these heads are heavy. You should keep it simple. Did you ever find out why you could not rotate the crankshaft with the heads on? Let us know how it turns out. Pete
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By bird55 - 17 Years Ago
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Considering your remote location you could just send to John Mummert and get it over with. Otherwise you are going to have to track down a machine shop that is familiar with those heads and knows how to find everything for them etc, etc. Not difficult in my area. It does seem like the average machine shop would rather mess with newer stuff.
Mummert told me to just roll them up in corrugated cardboard to ship. Pretty easy, and the last time I shipped some it was around 80 bucks-considering they weigh almost 50lbs each.
You might call him and ask what he would do for your budget, stock rebuild no porting at least that would give you a benchmark.
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By 55Monterey - 17 Years Ago
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Thanks Bird. You are right, I am way up in the mountains of AZ but PHX is only 3 hrs. away. I'm not looking for anything fancy here. Just want to get her back on the road. I met a guy in PHX on the H.A.M.B that has a good 272, and yes, all the valves operate properly. He only wants $100 for the complete engine. Perhaps I will just swap heads and she where she takes me.
Anywho, I now have the heads soaking in a parts washer filled with diesel. I can only hope to go out to the garage in the morning and the valves will be freed up. Wishful thinking, I know.
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By MoonShadow - 17 Years Ago
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Even if they were free I would still do a valve job at least. It's a lot easier now while the engines out. Plain valve jobs shouldn't be all that expensive. replaced valves and guides will bring the price up some. I tried to do heads on a running engine a few years back. Should have done the crank and rods while it was apart. Only lasted a year! If have the crank and bore checked and it's ok then just put and set of rings and bearings in it. You will have a much better lasting/running engine that way. Of course this all depends on your current finances. Chuck in NH
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