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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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I have been experiencing a strange new problem with my TBird. It is very hot here in Central Florida right now. We have a small car show every Wednesday morning in a paved parking lot. Three times now I have had a problem starting the car after it's been sitting in the heat. My car is black and you could fry an egg on the hood. The engine turns over, but it acts like there is no fuel. I pump the accelerator and nothing happens. Eventually the engine starts and it runs perfectly. So far I have not had the problem when the car is in the garage or at any other time. I have a Holley 465 with a 1957 "B" intake manifold. I haven't looked down the carb to see if I'm getting fuel, but it's very intermittent. Do I need an electric fuel pump?
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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Phil, you know as much/more than most about these cars. I'm sure you'll find a solution.
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By Cliff - 3 Years Ago
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Is there an insulator under the carburetor? is the fuel line to close to the block?
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By peeeot - 3 Years Ago
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I would suspect that it is hard to start because of an over-rich mixture in the intake from fuel percolation or vapors venting within the air cleaner or carb throats. If so, slowly opening the throttle partway and holding it there while cranking should result in it firing up pretty quickly.
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By miker - 3 Years Ago
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Years ago I discovered that when I had the hood up at a show, restarting wasn’t a problem. Down, it was. I got so I put the hood up at home in the garage if I was going out again soon. I thought it was both the carb boiling dry and the fumes inside the air cleaner. It was worse with the bonnet for the supercharger. It’s free to give it a try.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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I had a 1" plastic spacer under my carb for a long time. Recently replaced it with a 1/2" PCV conversion spacer from Casco. I am fairly sure the carb running dry as it sits in that parking lot. Don't know what the temperature is under that hood, but it must be hot enough to bake a cake. I'll try lifting the hood and see what happens.
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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My experience has been ‘heat soak’ taking place when the engine is cut off which in turn has the carburetor dribbling excess fuel into the engine when it sits. This usually takes some grinding on the starter to get that excess fuel out before the engine will restart. Pumping the accelerator in these cases typically aggravates the problem. I can see where ethanol laden gasoline can also exacerbate the issue as that fuel would be more heat sensitive.
In your case and in a similar ‘hot’ circumstance, I’ll suggest barely opening the throttle and then try starting the engine. Avoid pumping any additional fuel into the engine and see if that helps.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted. I all my years of playing with these engines this is the first time I have had this particular issue. This is also the first time I have parked my car on asphalt in 100 degree weather. I checked everything again and I can't find anything amiss. I rerouted my PCV line, but I doubt that had anything to do with it. When sitting in my garage, the engine starts immediately and idles like a watch. I recently switched to a lower octane gas. Maybe there is something in the fuel that is making it worse? It does seem pumping the gas pedal makes it take longer to start. It makes me a little nervous because I don't want to get stuck. I'll see what happens next Wednesday.
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By Joe-JDC - 3 Years Ago
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You might want to drill and tap your 1" plastic spacer for the PCV fitting and replace the aluminum plate. Just a thought. Joe-JDC
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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My saga continues. Today after the Wednesday morning car show my car wouldn't start again. Last week I left the hood up and had no problems. This time, the hood was left up as before. After cranking the engine without sucess, I removed the air cleaner to see if I was getting fuel. The stream from both squirters was substantial, so I eliminated lack of fuel from being the problem. A friend held the coil wire to ground and I had no spark. I checked the wires and all seemed OK. My friend said my coil was very hot to the touch. After a couple of minutes, the engine started and ran perfectly on the way home. My ignition system is composed of a stock 1957 distributor with a Pertronix #1 module and a Pertronix 1.5 Ohm Flame Thrower coil. I am not running an external resistor. This combo has worked without fault for at least two years. It's very intermittent and seems to be related to the heat in that parking lot. Should I change out the coil and/or the Pertronix unit? Could bad ignition wires cause this? It's got me puzzled...
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By DryLakesRacer - 3 Years Ago
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Phil, when I installed a Pertronix II 9 years ago I researched everything I could and only found coil problems. Most said because they were hot or they used a different coil. I chose to use the stock ballast and never had a problem so far. It seems funny the coil would be hot from sitting with the hood open or with just cranking to start. Is the coil mounted to the intake, can you possibly insulate it like we do the carbs? Just suggesting things..good luck.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 3 Years Ago
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Now that you have it down to an electrical issue, I would probably replace the Pertronix with a Pertronix 2 since you have the Pertronix 1 which was said to fail if the ignition switch is left in the on position with the engine not running. We all know how electrical devices, when starting to fail can be very sensitive to tempertaure. Also, if the coil is mounted in the horizontal position, I have always purchased epoxy filled coils to eliminate the possibility of the coil core not being fully surrounded by the heat transferring oil, for what it's worth. What has worked for me with no issues is Pertronix 2 with 1.5 ohm epoxy filled Blaster coil and no resistor. My wild guess would be an issue with the Pertronix unit. However, it's easy enough to substitute another coil then go to that "bad" parking lot and see if that does the trick. These intermittent problem are a real pain - good luck.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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My coil is mounted on an iron intake with the stock coil bracket. I could put some material under the bracket to insulate it. The 1.5 Ohm coil is supposed to work without the resistor. I'm not sure why the coil would be hot to the touch. It's definitely a heat problem of some kind as always starts in my garage.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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I may have found a problem. I was using an aftermarket chrome plated ignition coil bracket to mount my coil to the intake manifold. This turned the coil causing it to contact the intake manifold and the original aluminum valve covers which get quite hot. This may have been transferring heat to the coil. I relocated the Pertronix coil using the OEM coil bracket with some rubber washers to insulate it. The coil is no longer touching any part of the engine. I am wondering if I should order a new coil as my current coil may be damaged? It is very hot right now in Central Florida. I am sure you could cook a roast under my hood.
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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If you're concerned about heat saturation of the coil, you might consider relocating it on the firewall.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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That is going to be my next move. I have never seen a coil fail this way. You would think it wouldn't work at all?
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By charliemccraney - 3 Years Ago
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I made some bushings to insulate the coil, possibly with sleeve washers and a flat washer of the same material. Something like this, https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-washers/washers-4/electrical-insulating-sleeve-washers/for-screw-size~5-16/
If using a stock bracket, this will require drilling or grinding the hole larger so that the sleeve washer fits inside the hole. This completely eliminates metal to metal contact between the bracket and intake.
The only reason I did this is because the coil manufacturer recommended not mounting the coil to the engine and I didn't want to drill holes in the firewall or fender. That coil is now over 10 years old (which is why I'm not sure exactly what I used).
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By Saltshaker - 3 Years Ago
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I had a problem with my 55 Imperial not starting after it heat soaked. There's a lot of cast iron in those old hemis! Coil finally failed completely. Installed another coil. Same problem.
Installed a piece of phenolic board between the coil bracket and intake manifold. That was five or six years ago and that stopped it. Made one for my 56 Victoria right after I bought it, just in case.
Looks like you've got it figured out.
Don
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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Problem solved. I emailed Pertronix and asked them about my issue. Here is their reply.
"I have attached the trouble shooting guide to check the main areas for most common problems
it could be one of two things, lack of power due to ignition resistance or possibly insufficient ground at the breaker plate of the module."
I checked the ignition resistance and it was within specs. I opened the distributor and found the small wire that grounds the breaker plate to the side of the distributor was broken. My 1957 distributor has the ball bearing style breaker plate. It must have been hanging on by a thread. Glad that's over... Thanks for the feedback.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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In the long list of dumb things I have done playing with cars, this has got to be by far the dumbest. The following Wednesday my TBird refused to start again. I barely made it home. I checked everything a dozen times. Coil OK? Check. Wires OK? Check. Timing OK? Check. Carburetor OK? Check. This left me with the Pertronix Module itself. I couldn't imagine how a solid state module would start, run, then quit working in the heat of day? While I was waiting for my new module to arrive, I went over everything again. As I was removing the Pertronix module I noticed the module was very close to the magnetic trigger. Evidently the module had worked loose and I hadn't noticed it. Pertronix says the gap should be about .040". Mine was almost touching. I reset the gap and the engine ran perfectly. As the engine would heat up the parts would expand and the Igniter would stop pulsing the coil. When it cooled down, the engine would run until next car show. When it arrives, I'm going to install the Ignitor II and coil and keep the Ignitor I as a backup. Glad that's over!!
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By paul2748 - 3 Years Ago
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For Pertronix I, is it recommended that you run run a resistor ? I thought that was the case, where with the II it is recommended not to.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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You can run the Pertronix #1 without the resistor if you use a 1.5 Ohm resistance coil. The Pertronix #2 uses a .6 Ohm resistance coil. Pertronix makes a Flame Thrower coil for both.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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Finally removed all the gremlins from my TBird engine. I was thinking about calling a priest! Ended up removing the intake manifold to block off the exhaust passages for the choke heat. While it was off I drilled out the valley pan grommet for the down draft tube so my PCV valve now has unrestricted flow to the crankcase. I swapped out both the Pertronix One and coil for Pertronix Two. Installed a new rotor and cap. Checked all my ignition wires and they were good. Installed new spark plugs gaped to .045". Blocking off the manifold passages made a huge difference in the heat at the top of the engine. I have a manual choke. My engine now starts immediately and purrs like a kitten. Thanks for the feedback. 
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