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By Dan - 17 Years Ago
Didnt see a place for intros but I assume one is in order. My name is Dan and I teach Auto Shop at the local high school (11th year teaching, 1st year in the auto shop) To say I am having a blast is an understatement! We have a '27 T project in the shop that we are going to make a trad. style hot rod out of. We plan to use a y-block that we found in our storage shed for the powerplant. I am an absolute novice when it comes to y-blocks but I reallt enjoy the old engines like hemis, flatheads, nailheads etc.

Really look forward to visiting here and learning about the y-block. Will also need to start trolling the classifieds, we are going to need (so far) rear main bearing cap, pushrods and lifters.

Thanks!

By Cactus - 17 Years Ago
Welcome to the site, I think that you will find the most knowledge available anywhere. I would suggest that you go back on all of the different categories available and research all of the problems that we have all experienced. Any questions that you or your students have will be quickly and accurately answered.

Again, welcome to our site, and good luck on your project.

By Doug T - 17 Years Ago
Hi Dan,

Welcome aboard we will be very interested to comment and help with your project.

Before starting on rebuilding any old Y block that may be available check to see what you have. Most commonly the motors are 292 cid displacement.  Check on the web site Ford-Y-Block.com for a complete listing of casting numbers for heads blocks cranks etc.  The best performance heads have casting marks ECZ-G or ????-113 cast under the water outlet of the heads. But for a lightweight T bucket huge amounts of power aren't mandatory to have a thrilling ride so obsessing on the "Best" could hurt your project.  The last of these engines was built by Ford in USA in 1964 and there is a real good chance that what you have is a mixture of parts. 

By Dan - 17 Years Ago
From what we've found so far the block is an ECG and the heads are ECZ-G, am guessing from these numbers it is probably a '57 p/u engine. the rocker arms are ECG6564-B2 which I think are the high ratio rockers?
By Gerry - 17 Years Ago
Dan Welcome. plenty of information around here lots of talk ond lots of projects from around the world.

If it's a truck motor should have some sort of mount accross the front, but side mounts can be used also. 

Dan what part of the country are you in.  Gerry

By bird55 - 17 Years Ago
Welcome to the site!



Since this is a tbucket project start looking now or deciding how to do the exhaust. You could use Ram horns but they can be pricey for what you get. After that its a hand fabbed exhaust which in my opinion is perfect for that ride and would be a great welding project in itself-you can get precut header flanges on ebay.



Also you may have decisions about oil pan options. I've heard that you would want or need a rear sump pan for the chassis? I would think a tbird pan and sump would be out of the financial question. So you might want to keep your eyes and ears open for a rear sump pan and pickup. Just what I've heard.



Also saw that you requested lifters on the classifeds. You probably should mix lifters and cams without researching this subject. Could cause a cam to go flat quick.

You'll get lots of help here.

Just ask.

Good luck, this sounds like a great time!
By Dan - 17 Years Ago
as far as the sump goes the frame is a square tube typical T design, would think we will have room for just about anything, the steering will be mounted on top of the frame and the front will be suicide style, brake m/c will be mounted under the floor. exhaust will be a chore for sure. as far as mixing lifters and the cam I know what you mean - the lifters are already mixed up so we are in a bit of a pickle there already. I am located in Miles City MT

*sorry for the poor grammar and typing, am typing ine handed due to an accident...

By Glen Henderson - 17 Years Ago
You are ahead in the game already, you have the best heads and rockers. You can start working them. I assume that you are going too do a complete tear down and rebuild, my sugestion anyway. Depending on the budget a new cam and lifters would be in order, but if not reground cams and reconditioned lifters are available from John Mummert in CA. I can help you out with some cores, you pay shipping and they are yours. Get the block checked out, let us know what you have and we will procede from there. I have more "good used parts" than I will ever use and if they will be used to teach kids about engines and Y Blocks then same thing goes, pay shipping. I am sure that others on the site fill the same. Good Luck and keep us posted on the progress.
By Dan - 17 Years Ago
thanks for the offer, thats awesome! found all the lifters so if they check out we should be okay there - only thing I can find "missing" is the pushrods and rear main cap. we have the engine completely tore down and are in the process of cleaning and measuring etc.  I'll keep you guys updated, thanks!
By Y block Billy - 17 Years Ago
Dan,

Welcome to the site, its an odd experience but when I started reading your post I thought you may be in my neck of the woods because the local high school had a Y block for their shop motor back in the 60's and 70's, my brother always tried to buy it off them because it had never been run, it was only disassembled and reassembled as a class project each year. (I wonder if they still have it? maybe I should stop by some time). By the way it was in Maine

I wonder how many schools used Y blocks for their classes?, did ford have a program to donate the engines to the schools as a sponsorship or something?

As far as the lifters you found. Be aware! There were some after market ones that did not meet the hardness specs and ruined some cams and lifters before the problem was found. make sure the ones you found are up to spec, Mummert checks all his for hardness or won't sell them.

I have original FOMOCO sets that could be reground if you need and many other parts also.

Good luck with the project!

Bill

By Glen Henderson - 17 Years Ago
John Wilson, a long time Y Blocker (went on his honeymoon in a 57 ford) was a High School Machine Shop teacher here in central AL for many years. He told me that he always used a Y Block in his classes and still has the work table that he used. It has fixtures to hold the various parts.
By Hoosier Hurricane - 17 Years Ago
Dan:

By "rear main cap", do you mean the cap for the main bearing, or the cap that holds the rear oil seal?  They are separate pieces on a Y, unlike many other engines.  The cap for the seal is aluminum.

John in Selma, IN

By PF Arcand - 17 Years Ago
Dan: Hopefully your project will result in some young blood coming into a generally aging group of Ford Y-Block enthusiasts. About the Rocker Arms, the ones you have are generally the 1.54 ratio, but recently a few of that casting number have been brought to our attention that are the 1.43 ratio. You might want to flip back a bit in recent blurbs on the subject. Main thing in your case is probably to have a matched set. Good luck with the project..
By Dan - 17 Years Ago
yes I need the aluminum piece that holds the oil seal-

does a shop manual (or somewhere?) have specs for the lifters so I can measure them and see if they are useable?

we found this enine in our storage shed, looks like an abandoned project-

according to what little research I've done I think these are the 1:5 ratio rockers as they have the numbers cast into the end where the adjuster goes-

thanks for the help and info!

By Dan - 17 Years Ago
a real quick measurement (lifters havent been cleaned up) shows a diameter of .499 and a length of 2.382 - is this within reason?
By Johnson Rod - 17 Years Ago
Y Block Billy,



I think you are correct about Y-Blocks and High School Auto Shop. We actually had three 292's and a couple of flat heads. One of the Y-Blocks was on a stand and it ran. We used it to practice tune ups. The other engines were used for "rebuilding". Believe it or not but those engine were taken apart and put back together again so many times the cylinders actually were wearing out and had a ridge at the top on the cylinders.
By Y block Billy - 17 Years Ago
I wonder how many are still kicking around high schools?? Maybe someone should do a survey, there may be an abundance of them sitting in classroom closets.
By Ted - 17 Years Ago
Dan (9/30/2008)
a real quick measurement (lifters havent been cleaned up) shows a diameter of .499 and a length of 2.382 - is this within reason?

The shaft diameter of the lifter sounds okay but wear in this particular area is typically not a problem whereas wear on the lifter face itself is.  Putting a straight edge on the lifter face and insuring that it is higher in the middle than the outside edges is a rudimentary method for checking for lifter wear.  If the lifter is flat or is actually lower in the middle than the edges, then lifter wear is evident and at this point should be replaced.

 

As a general rule when using used lifters, always keep the lifters associated with the same lobes of the camshaft when reusing them.  It’s risky and not recommended in using used lifters on other camshafts or switching them around in an engine on lobes they were not originally broke in on.

By Dan - 17 Years Ago
Well brought our engine to the machine shop yesterday to get it checked out. Machinist reports it has .017 taper. I plan to build it to 292 specs so he feels we can work with this block. Getting exciting - the actual work is beginning  Smile
By Y block Billy - 17 Years Ago
Being a school shop you may have access to a lathe. I put my lifters in a lathe chuck and a dial indicator on the tool post and run it back and forth to check the crown of the lifters
By Y block Billy - 17 Years Ago
Ted,

How about lifters that appear to be new from a fresh rebuild that went wrong on a connecting rod, and using those lifters with a new cam shaft???

The reason I am asking is that a motor I picked up and tore apart had all new parts in it but one connecting rod must not have gotten torqued and the nuts where at the end of the bolts and the cap was history. Would those lifters be usable with a new cam?

I have a grinding attachment to go on my lathe and have the ability to reface them also but was just wondering if there were any issues with using slightly used ones with a new cam. I know many people who have changed cams without ever bothering with lifters so I can't see why there should be an issue.

By Ted - 17 Years Ago
Y block Billy (10/2/2008)
Ted, How about lifters that appear to be new from a fresh rebuild that went wrong on a connecting rod, and using those lifters with a new cam shaft???

For a customers engine, the risk is simply too high to take a chance with using used lifters on a new camshaft.  For myself I could potentially gamble a bit on my own engine with a used lifter but on a customers engine where there’s the remotest chance of failure, I’ll stick with the rule of always putting new lifters on a new camshaft.  If an engine has run at least twenty minutes, then the lifters and lobes have technically been mated to each other at which point even moving the lifters to other lobes would not even be considered.  With this reasoning, the lifters are not suitable for another camshaft without a given amount of additional risk being attached to them.  It's simply boils down to how much risk you are willing to accept.

But to reinforce how critical camshaft and lifter mating is, I recently dealt with someone who had insisted on using their old camshaft and even with new lifters, this engine experienced a lobe failure within the first hour of running.  In this case, the camshaft had been moved from one block to another and was glad I was not the one who had to warranty and subsequently fix the engine.  All it takes is for the lifter bores to be located just slightly different from one block to another to make swapping used cams and/or lifters from engine to engine very risky business.  Not every case in doing this is a failure which is why people are still doing it.  Although new lifters are not a guarantee against a lifter and/or lobe failure, it does reduce the risk providing the lifters are of a known quality to begin with.  Offshore lifters are another topic altogether.

Y block Billy (10/2/2008)
I have a grinding attachment to go on my lathe and have the ability to reface them also but was just wondering if there were any issues with using slightly used ones with a new cam.

Unless you can put the proper radius for the crown on the bottom of the lifter, then a simple resurfacing of the lifter face will not be adequate.  Don’t recall the exact spec for the crown for a Y lifter but seems like it’s in the 50” radius range.  Excuse the long post as I got carried away on this one.

By Dan - 17 Years Ago
yeah, we have a lathe, good idea! how much crown should they have?
By speedpro56 - 17 Years Ago
Always remember when you resurface a lifter you are cutting some of the hardness away and taking a step closer to failure. As much work as it is changing cams and lifters in a y-block there's no way in ???? would I gamble used too new. Some cases where that can work is where there is not alot of spring pressure 70 lbs or so closed and lifters still have a decent crown for rotation.
By Glen Henderson - 17 Years Ago
Dan, like has been stated above I think you will be wasting time and energy with those lifters that you have. I am going to send you a cam and lifters that I just removed from a very low mileage eng, the crosshatching is still visable in the cyls. The lifters are marked in the order that they were removed so you can install them on the proper lobe. The cam looks good with no noticeable lobe wear and it has the H/D truck double roller chain. I would not be afraid to use this cam and lifters in a stock rebuild if it is reassemblied in the proper order. If you decided not to use it and go with a new cam, by all means go with new lifters recommended by the cam grinder not the cheap off shore stuff on E bay.
By Dan - 17 Years Ago
awesome, thank you-
By Y block Billy - 17 Years Ago
Yes I agree Ted and Gary, this is my own motor and I know the lifters didn't see more than 5 minutes of run time before the rod let go, it couldn't have because all else was brand spanking new in the motor from wrist pins and bushings, bearings etc,,, they must have just forgot to tighten a rod cap.