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By rexbd - 17 Years Ago
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I saw a thread talking about putting a scrub tranny in a Tbird. I really want to put a more modern auto overdrive tranny in the 55 I am restoring but don't want to cut the frame to accommodate like I would with the Ford AOD. We intend to really drive this a lot once its done. Any leads or help in sorting through this is appreciated. I promise it would be the only Scrub part I have every owned in my life.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 17 Years Ago
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Hey: Remember that its your car and if putting in an R700 or R200 means that it gets driven more and is more fun to drive go for it. If you can put it in without cutting the frame it can always be undone at a later date. My opinion. Pete
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By 57FordPU - 17 Years Ago
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The Y-Block movement is about the engines and then some about the car. I do not hear much talk about Fordo's or 9 inchers, so transmissions and rear axles should be fair game. If anyone around here should feel guilty it would be me for running chevy 6 cyl rods in the race truck! Keep them Birds mooovin' forward................
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By oldcarmark - 17 Years Ago
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This is just my opinion.With the downsizing and massive changes comming in the manufacture of new vehicles I think you will see more and more interchange of parts between all the different carbuilders.For example you may well see the same tranny or motor in Fords,GM's and Chrysler(if they survive at all).The fact that there is a better fitting transmission for this particuler Bird and its a "scrub" is not a problem for me.If the motor was a "scrub" than he would obviously need to find a new site.Besides I like the fact that he intends to DRIVE it a lot not park it and look at it.Just my 2 cents worth.
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By rexbd - 17 Years Ago
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Appreciate the thoughts. Promise I am going to cherry out the Yblock and the rest of the bird. Can anyone recomend a source for this swap and who can assist with parts?
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By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago
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The Y-Block movement is about the engines and then some about the car.
Absolutely!
That's why I'm putting the E4OD in my F-600, but keeping the "Y"
Ok, now I guess this is a stupid question......What's a "Scrub Tranny"? (I don't want to do a search for ANY kind of tranny  )
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By GREENBIRD56 - 17 Years Ago
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Try out this Wilcap outfit site - http://www.wilcap.com/index.html Al Frakes put an AOD in his outfit - and trimmed the very top edge of the crossmember a tiny (and I mean tiny) amount to get it in there. If some future owner is offended by that - I suppose they could weld the itty bitty relief back and grind on it a awhile.
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By oldcarmark - 17 Years Ago
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Hello Rick,Any component thats NOT Ford is considered a "scrub" but mainly it refers to the car manufacturer who's first letter is "G" and second letter is before "N".By the way no question is stupid if you don't know the answer.
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By HT32BSX115 - 17 Years Ago
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Thanks! nice 55! My Dad had a 2 door 55! I had a 57!
(Well, I still have a 55!)
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By bird55 - 17 Years Ago
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As Steve mentioned, I did trim the x member in my 55. Only an expert tbird person could ever tell it was done I think. Looks like a factory thing.
Anyway, so that would give let you put an AOD in there. I used the Bendtson adapter and kit which incudes a high torque mini starter flywheel and adapters.
It will (I think) work also with a scrub R700 trans by using a different flywheel and crankshaft adapter. I discussed which trans to install with Bob Bendsten if he were doing his own Tbird and he recommended the AOD.
I kept my old Fordomatic and all assorted hardware so that if the person who gets my car after I'm dead- can return it to it's old ineffiecent, heavy self.
After owning this car all these years I can't ever see going back to stock now or worrying about the half inch I shaved off the x-member that no one would know about if I hadn't told. ; )
I also was able to retain the stock shifter which WAS A MUST for me and have full selection with it.
Here's a pic of how I did it.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 17 Years Ago
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First off that is nice work and thanks for the picture of the AOD mount. I have an AOD behind a 302 in a 1963 MK2 Jag and I plan on putting one in a 66 Mustang so I am somewhat familiar with the AOD. Were you able to fab everything without separating the body from the frame? The AOD is a BIG transmission so why do you feel it was a better choice than the GM R200? My experience with the AOD is that it needs a lot of aftermarket and later year (read 1989 and up) parts to perform and be reliable. And then there is the strange shift pattern. To lock in second gear you must do the low drive low shuffle or do an epoxy mod to the valve body. Just some thoughts and stuff I picked up in case somebody else needs to know. Pete
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By pegleg - 17 Years Ago
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Pete, Couple thoughts. Lentech makes a valve body that eliminates the low to second back to low trick. You just shift it. The AOD is big, the 4R70w is about the same size, has a lower low and second gear, which means you need less converter to launch it, andd they revised the lock up clutch to the same arrangement as the GM trans. The 70 means it can handle 700 ft lbs of torque. You will have to do better clutches etc to get there though.
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By Doug T - 17 Years Ago
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At least some of the Bendsen adaptors add about two inches to the length the trany. Since the trans tunnel and the frame X member in a T-Bird is distinctly tapered, pushing the trany back will not make the fit easier. There are other AOD adaptor systems that would not add that much length.
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By Carls56 - 17 Years Ago
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rexbd (10/23/2008)
Appreciate the thoughts. Promise I am going to cherry out the Yblock and the rest of the bird. Can anyone recomend a source for this swap and who can assist with parts?I bought an aod last week and I have a 200-4r in the shop.If you need me to measure them for you let me know. The 200-r4 is the same length as a th350.I had it in a camaro and just had to move the crossmember back six inches.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 17 Years Ago
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Hi Carl: I for one would like to see a comparision of the GM 200-R4 and the Ford AOD both length, width and weight. Thanks Pete
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By uncleaud - 17 Years Ago
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I'm In the middle of the process of installing a 700r4 in my 57 t-bird. I bought the Wilcap adapter that came with new flywheel and starter. I did have to modify the frame to make it fit right. The drivers side can be made to fit by triming the top edge back to the center web. The passengers side needs a pretty significant hump cut out to clear the valve body and pan on the GM tranny I also built a bolt in tranmission mount. That being said, it isn't rocket science if you are handy with a welder and grinder. All of the modification takes place on the top side of the frame so that from underside it all looks pretty stock. The driveshaft needs to be lengthened about 3 inches also. The transmission tunnel fits with room to spare, The stock shifter has plenty of room and I believe that the stock linkage will work with only minor work. I have the body off the frame so that is also big help. It could be a real chore to do with the body on. Now to really raise the ire of the elite While I'm at it, tonight I am taking the grinder and cut off wheel to the center section of the cross member and when I am done I will be able to change the tranmission without removing the motor. The center of the crossmember will bolt in. All the components will hook up in their stock location. If my grandson wants it back stock someday I'll save him all the pieces
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By uncleaud - 17 Years Ago
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I'll jump in with another reply. The 2004r is too short and couples too close to the mount to make the driveshaft work without some serious thought. I agree that the gear ratio of the 2004r is nicer but it was really too short to work well.
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By Carls56 - 17 Years Ago
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Pete 55Tbird (10/26/2008)
Hi Carl: I for one would like to see a comparision of the GM 200-R4 and the Ford AOD both length, width and weight. Thanks Pete Pete, I will try to get that for you tommorow night.The aod is on the floor.The 200-r4 is setting in the frame of my 54 f100 right now but I can pull it for you.It,s just setting there out of the way. I went ahead and put a buick 350 and a th350 in my 56 car.I am telling guys this that are worried about the driveshaft lenght. It was 126$ to get a driveshaft made with a th350/200-r4 to the 56 ford rear.(Getting a driveshaft made is no big deal) I still have my y-block and am thinking about going with one of the overdrives I have and put in my 54 f-100.I have a gm front clip in it and I am going to need a rear sump pan.
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By uncleaud - 17 Years Ago
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Here's some pics of my frame with the removable cross member. Also give you the idea of what mods are necessary to put in a 700r4 or such. Took me two evenings to get it roughed and probably take another one or two to get it polished and painted. 
It fits tight. It's held in with four grade 8 bolts at each joint. when it is bolted in it is as at least as strong as original and anything will come out the bottom without pulling the motor. The rear transmission mount is a bolt in also so that can be altered if the need ever comes up. I'll take some more pics when I get it all togeather and shined up.
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By bird55 - 17 Years Ago
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wow, that's cool. But way too much work for me.
Makes me wonder though if you go to this much effort why keep the original x at all just cut it all out and put in an all new box tube setup or something, so the whole thing comes loose.
ok, i'll shut up now-Anyway, looks good.
I had to do mine with the body on. 
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By uncleaud - 17 Years Ago
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I actually thought about cutting it all out and making it a ladder style frame. Even had a crossmember roughed up. But, this way all the stock exhaust hangers and pipes fit plus from the underside it all looks pretty original except for the four joint plates in the frame and I don't think they will be too obtrusive. Except for this, the rest of it should be pretty easy just puttin it togeather like Henry intended.
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By Carls56 - 17 Years Ago
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I got some pictures of the aod and 200-r4 side by side.The 200-r4 is the one with the yoke.The aod has the rusty converter. According to my back.They each weigh about 700lbs each.But the bathroom scales has the 200 at about 165lbs and the aod at about 185.This is just an old cheap scale. The length of the aod is about 31 inches.The 200 is aobut 27 1/2. If you guys have any other questions about them just ask.As you can see I have them both just settting in the shop. http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0354.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0355.jpg In this one,I layed on the ground.You can see the aod outline around the 200.Aod looks a little bigger. http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0352.jpg Some more. http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0350.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0349.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0348.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0347.jpg
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By rexbd - 17 Years Ago
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Pics are helpful got me wondering if the 200r will fit without cutting the frame since it is shorter. Has anyone actually done this swap? I still want to use the stock T-bird shifter if I can. Time to start searching the internet. Know what you mean about things feeling heavy. Used to be able to swap out the top loaders in the mustangs without breaking a sweat or using a jack, not anymore. Now I use my son to do this. Thanks for taking the time to do this very helpful.
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By uncleaud - 17 Years Ago
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The 2004r is shorter and also the transmission mount is 3/4 inch from the tail end. That makes the end of the tranmission happen right at the front side of the crossmember on the T-bird so at that point you would have to cut and modify the center area of the crossmember to allow for the mount and the driveshaft angle also. You might not have to cut quite as much of the x-member as I did but the overall job would be tricker to do especially with the body on.
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By bird55 - 17 Years Ago
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I just got back from the tranny shop this morning with my bird.
I asked the guy what he thought about all I had done and he was impressed. But,
He said if it were him he would have used a gm (course he's a scrub guy) because he like the smoother 3-4 shift and they can be built tougher, easier.
He said mine would be great and be built tougher but at a higher cost of course.
Not so good news is the AOD governor is not operating properly and has to warm up to shift properly.
After 180 degrees and about 5 miles it operates OK.
Worse news is to fix it the tranny has to come out (by me) cause I installed it AND the engine of course as has been discussed here. cheap little part and quick fix-just can't drop the tailshaft on my setUp.
Good news is he'll fiix it for free. I just have to pull it and re-Install again, yuk.
He installed some better trans fluid/cleaner that he said might cure it if I drive it awhile, it may work itself out.
I've got my fingers crossed.
I plan to drive it about 600 miles next weekend.
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By bird55 - 17 Years Ago
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rexbd (10/31/2008)
Pics are helpful got me wondering if the 200r will fit without cutting the frame since it is shorter. Has anyone actually done this swap? I still want to use the stock T-bird shifter if I can. Time to start searching the internet.
Know what you mean about things feeling heavy. Used to be able to swap out the top loaders in the mustangs without breaking a sweat or using a jack, not anymore. Now I use my son to do this.
Thanks for taking the time to do this very helpful.
Even tho the trans might be a little shorter-the area around the mount of it -that is the pan and houseing has to essentially sit up above the x member-all other stuff hangs down in the area of the x member openig-so I still think it will take cutting the x to clear. Also you have to realize that the tunnel has to clear all of this as well. Believe me it's tight. If you have the luxury of the body off and a bare trans and block to mock up with you could resolve all of it. Anything custom takes some work.
I also used the stock shifter and it looks perfect, just has more gears!
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By Pete 55Tbird - 17 Years Ago
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This is about the automatic transmission removal from a 55/57 Tbird. In an Earlybird newsletter from the early 1980`s several members had successfully pulled a FOM WITHOUT pulling the engine. I didn`t follow all the details at the time but if you had access to a lift and a transmission jack I do believe that it is possible. And the price of a lift has come down a lot. Just another random thought. When it stops raining I will measure a medium case 56 FOM vs a 89 AOD. Pete
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By Carls56 - 17 Years Ago
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I have my 56 car fordomatic under a work bench.If you guys want me to I will drag it out and get some pictures of it with the overdrives also. It,s out of a 56 town sedan with 292.Is the Bird Fordomatic the same?
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By JeffB54 - 17 Years Ago
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Check with the tech people by phone at www.transmissioncenter.net I don't think any cutting is involved.The website has a good picture of the AOD to Y-block kit.
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By Carls56 - 17 Years Ago
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Here are some pictures next to my 56 fordomatic. http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0359.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0360.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0361.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0363.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0367.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j46/1954ford/DSCF0368.jpg
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By uncleaud - 17 Years Ago
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Heres a little update for those interested. Couple pics of the frame with the center section bolted back in. Also a couple of pics of the best kind of help you can ask for. He's only six years old be sure like to work on the Thunderbird.
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