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By Hawk5619 - 16 Years Ago
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I am building a 292+.030 for a street driven nostagic Hot Rod or 59 Edsel. I have a set of G heads and new Schuman valves. The springs I am going to have my machine shop use are Schneider #68030. These are a single spring with a press. of 110lbs seat and 320lbs open. The cam is a Isky 301444 Is to much spring pressure for the Isky cam OR just about right. Thanks for all info Rick
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By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago
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Does that cam have a more common designation? ( Like E-2 or ?) And what is it's recommended RPM range? Have you checked with Isky for their recomendation ?
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By Ted - 16 Years Ago
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Seat pressure sounds good but if that 320# is the over the nose pressure, then it’s on the high side.
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By Hawk5619 - 16 Years Ago
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It is a E4 with .425 lift rpm range 2000-5000 A very mild cam. I did write to Isky tech line for there recomemdation. I am sure they will say to buy there springs, Thanks for the help Rick
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By speedpro56 - 16 Years Ago
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Rick, I would lower the spring pressure in the range of 100 lbs on the seat and try for approx 270 ish open. Our lifters don't like real high pressure for longevity. I'm running 100 lbs on the seat and around 260 lbs open with the bee hive springs and accidentally hit the 7000 rpm limit a few times ( I don't recommend that ) with no problems. This is just my take on it.
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By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
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I agree that the 320 is too much. Any idea what the installed height is seated and how much it is open for 320lbs? I suspect that that cam will not have enough lift to get to the 320lb figure, anyway.
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By Hawk5619 - 16 Years Ago
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After more checking with Schneider that 320lb open spec is at .600 lift! My small lift cam should be ok. Thanks for the replies Rick
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By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
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If it is of any interist I messured a stock spring yesterday and this is what I came up with. 90lbs @ 1.750" (Seat pressure) 195lbs @ 1.312" 210lbs @ 1.250" Stock springs should be good for at least 5000 rpm so go from there.
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By jakdad - 16 Years Ago
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I would check the Isky specs for that cam. They are well engineered kits if you use their springs and retainers. Certainly worth looking into. Good luck.
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By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago
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Tim: Just for clarification, I've seen stock spring pressures listed in a couple of places but the only one I can put my hands on at the moment, is from Eickman' Y-Block book. The pressures you are listing as stock, I think are well above the minimum, the book lists. I think seat pressures stock, are around 70 lbs at 1.780 & maybe 155 lbs or so at 1.390. What you may have there, are close to what Schumann's Sales lists as Police duty springs. Stock (new) springs were only rated to 5400 RPM. However, I'm not positive of my info..?
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By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
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Paul, What I listed did not come from a book, We have a box of springs in the shop (we buy them by the gross) so I took one spring and measured it at those heights, and that is what I posted. I guess we put a little better than stock springs in our rebuilds.
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By 46yblock - 16 Years Ago
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jakdad (1/18/2009)
I would check the Isky specs for that cam. They are well engineered kits if you use their springs and retainers. Certainly worth looking into. Good luck.It has always been a curiosity to me that Isky calls for the same spring pressures on all of its 4 Y cam offerings, which range from a high rpm of 7000 rpm using the most radical cam, to 5000 rpm on its mildest: 135 seat 285 open.
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By Ted - 16 Years Ago
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46yblock (1/19/2009)
It has always been a curiosity to me that Isky calls for the same spring pressures on all of its 4 Y cam offerings, which range from a high rpm of 7000 rpm using the most radical cam, to 5000 rpm on its mildest: 135 seat 285 open. Mike. As you mentioned, Iskenderian lists the p/n 6005 valve spring for use with all their Y camshaft offereings regardless of intended usage. But digging deeper into the Isky catalogue, the same p/n 6005 spring is also being listed for the small block Ford V8’s, 6 & 8 cylinder scrub offerings, and Ford 240/300 sixes. Considering that I just don’t have any problems with Isky cams and lifters when using these springs just means Isky is doing something right on their end. But playing with the rocker arm ratios does net some different over the nose pressures for the Isky Y cam lineup with the p/n 6005 springs while maintaining a 135 lb seat pressure. With 1.43:1 rockers. Isky E-4 264 lbs Isky RPM-300 271 lbs Isky F-300 269 lbs Isky 505-T 285 lbs With 1.5:1 rockers. Isky E-4 270 lbs Isky RPM-300 277 lbs Isky F-300 276 lbs Isky 505-T 292 lbs With 1.54:1 rockers. Isky E-4 274 lbs Isky RPM-300 281 lbs Isky F-300 280 lbs Isky 505-T 297 lbs With 1.6:1 rockers. Isky E-4 280 lbs Isky RPM-300 287 lbs Isky F-300 286 lbs Isky 505-T 304 lbs With valve spring rates being linear, then installing the Isky p/n 6005 springs at a 1.800” height instead of 1.750” will give a seat pressure of 118½ lbs. if it was originally at 135 lbs. This reduction of 16½ lbs in seat pressure is then also a 16½ lb reduction in over the nose pressure. And that’s enough fun with numbers this early in the morning.
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By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago
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Tim: I just checked J. Mummerts Spring listings & std. stock valve springs are listed as 70 lb on the seat & 165 lb open. Next he lists springs c/w damper, at 95 lb on seat & 235 lb open.
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By 46yblock - 16 Years Ago
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Prior to installing a Isky E-4 into my engine I was hassling with the spring pressure issue. Past posts here by Hoosier and others indicated the Isky recommendation for pressure was excessive. I looked at JMs recommendations on his mildest cam and saw stock was OK, VS95 recommended. So the stock spring heights were set for 90lb seat. Then a passage in a 1956 shop manual surfaced, stating not to overshim springs or breakage could result. That piece of info combined with the realization that these stock springs were 50 years old led to the ordering of the JM VS95, which were adjusted in height for a seat pressure of 90-95 lbs., with 90 being the target. Valve train is stock 1.92 intake and 1.52 exhaust valves, with slight weight reduction in one piece keepers and after market pushrods. The use of lighter stainless valves, or either of the two lighter and smaller stock intake valves, should make the higher spring pressures even less important, I think. The truck and engine will be driven very conservatively with redline of 5000, rarely to be achieved.
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By 62galxe - 16 Years Ago
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Ted (1/20/2009)
46yblock (1/19/2009)
It has always been a curiosity to me that Isky calls for the same spring pressures on all of its 4 Y cam offerings, which range from a high rpm of 7000 rpm using the most radical cam, to 5000 rpm on its mildest: 135 seat 285 open. Mike. As you mentioned, Iskenderian lists the p/n 6005 valve spring for use with all their Y camshaft offereings regardless of intended usage. But digging deeper into the Isky catalogue, the same p/n 6005 spring is also being listed for the small block Ford V8’s, 6 & 8 cylinder scrub offerings, and Ford 240/300 sixes. Considering that I just don’t have any problems with Isky cams and lifters when using these springs just means Isky is doing something right on their end. But playing with the rocker arm ratios does net some different over the nose pressures for the Isky Y cam lineup with the p/n 6005 springs while maintaining a 135 lb seat pressure. With 1.43:1 rockers. Isky E-4 264 lbs Isky RPM-300 271 lbs Isky F-300 269 lbs Isky 505-T 285 lbs With 1.5:1 rockers. Isky E-4 270 lbs Isky RPM-300 277 lbs Isky F-300 276 lbs Isky 505-T 292 lbs With 1.54:1 rockers. Isky E-4 274 lbs Isky RPM-300 281 lbs Isky F-300 280 lbs Isky 505-T 297 lbs With 1.6:1 rockers. Isky E-4 280 lbs Isky RPM-300 287 lbs Isky F-300 286 lbs Isky 505-T 304 lbs With valve spring rates being linear, then installing the Isky p/n 6005 springs at a 1.800” height instead of 1.750” will give a seat pressure of 118½ lbs. if it was originally at 135 lbs. This reduction of 16½ lbs in seat pressure is then also a 16½ lb reduction in over the nose pressure. And that’s enough fun with numbers this early in the morning. I know this is a old post but it kinda fits my question. Ted was this using the inner and outer springs. If I leave out the inner spring do you know about how much this will change the spring rate on the 6005 springs. The following measurements are uninstalled lengths. My stock springs were 2.080 tall. The isky outer is 2.440. The isky inner is 2.075. Is this shorter length on the inner because of the valve guide boss. Thanks,Kenny
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 16 Years Ago
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Kenny: The valve guide boss has to be machined smaller all the way to the outer spring seat to use the inner spring. The spring is shorter because there is a step on the spring retainer which reduces the installed height of the inner spring.
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By 62galxe - 16 Years Ago
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talk about a blond moment. forgot all about the step in the retainer.
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By Ted - 16 Years Ago
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62galxe (9/15/2009)
.....Ted was this using the inner and outer springs. If I leave out the inner spring do you know about how much this will change the spring rate on the 6005 springs. The following measurements are uninstalled lengths. My stock springs were 2.080 tall. The isky outer is 2.440. The isky inner is 2.075. Is this shorter length on the inner because of the valve guide boss. Thanks,Kenny The stated pressures are with the inner springs in place. Without a new set of Isky 6005 valve springs sitting here in which to measure, I can’t say for sure exactly how much pressure the inner springs are worth in both seat pressure and over the nose pressure. What I did have here was a used 6005 spring and while it measured 130 lbs. at 1.800” with the retainer in place, with the inner spring removed the pressure is 90 lbs. at the same 1.800”. The uncompressed spring heights really don’t do much for knowing what the final tension rates will be.
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By 62galxe - 16 Years Ago
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Thanks for the info. Sounds like just the outer should be ok. on the uninstalled height I was just showing how much taller the iskys were.
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