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By Apache - 16 Years Ago
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Okay it's gonna be a .30 over 292 57' block and 57' block and 57 ecg-z heads. Of course it has the 1/54 ratio blah blah blah..lol.. 4 Barrel carb, IDK what size to go with yet...opinions??? I know it's hard to get hp and okay milage, but i heard that the 390 CFM does an okay job? I'm goin with a 265º 224º .435" 110º Clay Smith cam, the one mummert sells. Gonna be running 2" dual exhaust thru thrush perforated core glasspacks. I'm very curious what kinda #s this set-up would more than likely be laying down...
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By Apache - 16 Years Ago
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BUMP>>>>> I wish this had as many replies as my Oiling QNA..lol
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By Hawk5619 - 16 Years Ago
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I am building almost the same motor for my Hot Rod Edsel. I was going to use a 57 272 block and bore it 292+.30 but since then I have found a 61 292 to bore .030 over. I am using the G heads with Schnider springs, new valves and a slight resurface just to clean them up. I am using the ISKY E-4 grind cam and going to have it all balanced. With a small Holley 4 barrel and mallory or msd ignition I am hoping for about 275 HP. Ford-o-Matic and dual exhaust. Should be a fun and ODD Hot Rod when done. Rick Wellington, Colorado
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By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago
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Apache: That cam is the one recommended for a Fordomatic, if that is what you have? Also, if those Thrushes are the old style with the raised perforations, time and tech has shown those type of mufflers are mostly noise, not much performance gain.
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By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago
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Apache & Hawk: If you get back issue #76, Sept-Oct 2006 of Y-Block Magazine, you will know very close to what it takes to get 275 h.p. with that cam. You will need competent head porting work for sure. Send about $8.00 min to the magazines editor, Bruce Young, at P.O. Box 1005 Ottawa Illinois 61350.
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By Apache - 16 Years Ago
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No the glasspacks are not louvered, the are perforated core glasspacks. YES YOU ARE CORRECT THOUGH. Louvered glasspacks ave been proven to be oneof the worst, it may be the worse I can't remember, for CFM flow. BUT, perforated core has the MOST cfm flow, besides straight pipe of course
Yes I'm sticking with the Fordomatic until it blows, then i'm going to upgrade to an AOD.
ALSO, Does electronic ignition add that much HP/TQ? I just rebuilt the distributor myself, so everything is new. Hate to waste all that money bc I went the wrong direction?
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By Glen Henderson - 16 Years Ago
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Just a comment , most of us old guys have never had our engines on a dyno and don't know how much HP they are putting out. Seat of the pants will let you know if its the right combo. Just another comment, I for one have a hard time with computers and cell phones and I don't do text messaging at all. When you post if you will use plan old english (either northern or southern) we don't have to strain our eyes and brains trying to figure out your question.
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By Apache - 16 Years Ago
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Glen Henderson (3/29/2009)
Just a comment , most of us old guys have never had our engines on a dyno and don't know how much HP they are putting out. Seat of the pants will let you know if its the right combo. Just another comment, I for one have a hard time with computers and cell phones and I don't do text messaging at all. When you post if you will use plan old english (either northern or southern)we don't have to strain our eyes and brains trying to figure out your question.
Was that directed towards me? I thought for the most part all of the shorthands I wrote would be understood, sorry...
CFM= "Cubic Feet per Minute". This is a measurement of air volume velocity and is often used in measuring air flow from heating or cooling diffusers.
BC= Because
HP= Horsepower
TQ= Torque
AOD= Ford's Automatic/Overdrive Transmission
I think that was all the shorthand I used, but i'm not sure...sorry....
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By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
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Apache, Don't take offense, but IDK and QNA is a little tough for us old folks. I got the LOL! I didn't get the BC or the first two mentioned. It is never too late for us old dogs to learn a few new tricks, but you know, when in Rome...........(or are you too young for that, lol). Keep up the enthusiasm, it is refreshing and gives some of us older Y-Blockers a jump start. later dude...................
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By Apache - 16 Years Ago
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sorry I didn't see the IDK and QNA.. And I wasn't taking offense. Just like I hope you guys take offense with silly QNAs like this..lol... I mean I know in my mopar, or in any other small block, goin .30 over with a cam, refreshed heads and a decent intake and W/E usually is around 300hp. I understand it's hard to get HP outta these bad boys. I need to get it stuck in my head that this is my daily driver and cruiser.
QNA= Question and Answer
IDK= I Don't Know
W/E= Whatever
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By Apache - 16 Years Ago
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When I'm in Rome...???... It's ALL Greek to me...lol... Yes do as the Romans blah blah blah..hahaha
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By pcmenten - 16 Years Ago
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Ballpark horsepower numbers would be the same with similar components on a scrub, mopar, or newer Ford. If you've got about 300 cubic inches and the heads flow ok, then it's the cam that determines horsepower. A 212 degree cam on a scrub 305 will make the same power on a 299 y-block.
Stock Ford y-block 113/ECZ-G heads flow as much or more than stock C5AE 289 hi-po heads. Ported y-block heads flow the same as ported 289/302 heads. You have to buy purpose-designed cylinder heads to out-flow a y-block. So any differences in power would come from the subtle differences in engine design. For example, y-blocks have stiffer lower ends, taller decks and longer rods, and shaft rockers. They can be spun to higher RPMs than a Windsor because of the stiffness, and they endure superchargers better. Of course, higher flowing y-block cylinder heads are being designed right now, and that will put the y-block back in the horsepower hunt.
But, getting back to your question, you can probably find someone with a desktop dyno who can give you a good ballpark estimate of the power.
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By Apache - 16 Years Ago
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Well since no one around the website has real good #'s except for MUSMMERT's #s on his strokers..it's only $30 for 3 pulls near me at a newer dyno place.. So after I get the thing tuned how I like it after I install it, i'll just have to bring it down and get ya'll some #'s :-D.. That's of course after I break it in 1k miles or so :-)
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By pcmenten - 16 Years Ago
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I downloaded a trial version of a desktop dyno program. After some tweaking of numbers, I came up with 250 HP for a 312 with a stock 57 cam, ported cylinder heads, and headers. You might try it, too.
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By Apache - 16 Years Ago
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I don't remember if I'm getting any head work done, I think it's just a rebuild, but I'll check anyways..
I shouldn't be lookin for HP anyways.. I shoulda asked about EFFICIENCY... LOL
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By simplyconnected - 16 Years Ago
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Efficiency went out the window when you put a cam in for more ponies. Scavanging, by design, pulls raw intake into the exhaust, just to make sure your combustion chamber is purged of exhaust gasses for the intake stroke.
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By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
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To a degree, you can get better performance, and fuel efficiency. I find that the weight of the foot has the greatest effect on efficiency.
The most recent build of my engine gets about 1mpg better on the highway than the old one and it is a lot more powerful! Unfortunately I never checked mileage with the stock 292 that was in the truck when I got it. Don't know how it compares there.
With the cam he's planning to use, more efficiency and power should be possible.
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By Apache - 16 Years Ago
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simplyconnected (3/31/2009)
Efficiency went out the window when you put a cam in for more ponies. Scavanging, by design,pulls raw intake into the exhaust, just to make sure your combustion chamber is purged of exhaust gasses for the intake stroke.
I know, that's where I always kill myself.. I love the rumpity-rump..Guess that's my prob with women too...lol.. But I'm assumin this is a small cam so wouldn't hurt it as bad..
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By simplyconnected - 16 Years Ago
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I do too. Mufflers work well with a mild cam. Put a hot street cam in, and there goes quiet. Three-chamber Flowmasters were pretty quiet with 5.0HO. Same mufflers were LOUD when I swapped to a 351W, once I put that General Kinetics roller cam in. Radio/DVD was useless while the engine was running. Bore sizes are identical, but stroke is 1/2" longer in the 351. Everything else is identical. It's all about what you want. I remember (E-250) Club Wagons with 460's. They were family vehicles, de-tuned to be all-around workhorses. They could sure pull an Airstream up all those Rocky Mountains, or run the family to the grocery store for milk, and quiet. Potential? Up the giggy! (No replacement for displacement.)
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By Poly318 - 16 Years Ago
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That reminds me. I understand that the 351W was a "Windsor" engine similar to the 302, but with a longer stroke. The 351C was a different animal, but with the same internal dimensions. However, wasn't there also a 351M, which was a de-stroked 400?
Never could keep all of that straight.
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By PWH42 - 16 Years Ago
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The 400 was an enlarged 351M,which was pretty much based on the 351C but substantially de-tuned to make it more of a workhorse than a high performance engine.The 351 Windsor is an enlarged 302 which was based on the original Windsor which came in 223,255,260 and 289 cubic inch variants.The 351 C(Cleveland) 400 and 351 M(Modified) engines have nothing in common with the Windsors,except for the displacement of the 351's.To make it a little more interesting,The Boss 302 and Boss 351 engines were a marriage of modified C/M heads and a Windsor block.Thoroughly confused now? I know I am.
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By simplyconnected - 16 Years Ago
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So, interrestingly enough, the 351W is the largest small-block in Ford's arsonal. The 351 Cleveland was the smallest big-block. Torino's etc, used the 351C (because they had so much more room), while Mustangs used the Windsor. (Fox) Mustangs had aftermarket raised hoods to accommodate the 351W, especially EFI engine setups. Squattier carbureted setups squeezed under stock hoods. I believe everyone using the 351 would love to use the Cleveland version as they produced more torque due to their longer rods, longer skirts, and less block flex. Fit restriction is physical engine size.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 16 Years Ago
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Personally - I always like the architecture of the "twisted" Cleveland style heads - angling the valves in the "right" direction worked some serious flow number magic. Just look at some old numbers from B. Glidden - and Gap and Roush stocker days. Anybody here take a ride in a "for real" Boss 351(C)? As a showroom stocker they would absolutely mangle big block chebbie Camaros and Hemi "Cudas.
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By Poly318 - 16 Years Ago
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Riddle me this--did the 351M & 400(M) share the same deck height? I know the 400 had a 1/2" longer stroke than the 351. I'd heard rumors that they used the same deck height, however.
I kind of lost track of Ford engines for a number of years because I was really into Mopars and AMCs (please don't hold that against me!).
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By Missouri Mike - 16 Years Ago
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The Windsor and Cleveland designation came about as those were the cities in which the engines were manufactured. The 302 was actually made in Cleveland not in Windsor (to confuse the issue even more). The 351C 4 bbl versions actually had intake valves that were a bit too large and like the Boss 302 had to really spin to make torque and horsepower. However I've been told if you are willing to spend the money and stroke one they will really go. There are some folks who are fans of the 400M and are getting some big numbers out of these motors, go figure . One guy is Barnett High Performance who I think is in Michigan. MO Mike
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By pegleg - 16 Years Ago
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Poly318 (4/1/2009)
Riddle me this--did the 351M & 400(M) share the same deck height? I know the 400 had a 1/2" longer stroke than the 351. I'd heard rumors that they used the same deck height, however.
I kind of lost track of Ford engines for a number of years because I was really into Mopars and AMCs (please don't hold that against me!). Poly, Yes same tall deck, and open chamber 2bbl Cleveland style heads.
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By yalincoln - 16 Years Ago
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hi, the 400 came out in 70, same as the 351 c, in 75 they took and put a 351w crank in the 400 block and made the 351m to replace the FE. all have same bore spacing but the 351c had smaller main jurnals, so they just reworked the 351w crank.
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