|
By ibuzzard - 16 Years Ago
|
|
I am considering eventually installing a self contained,60's vintage, NOS after-market AC under the dash of my truck.Are the modern refrigerants o.k. to use in it,or is my venture doomed to failure?Where would the compressor mount?It seems to me I've seen the alternator moved to the driver side,and the compressor placed on the passenger side.Can the older refrigerant still be had?Thanks,Steve.
|
|
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
|
I know that in the case of newer ac systems, like the one on my 88 Firebird, it is a matter of purging the system of the old refrigerant, replacing some seals with some that are compatible with the new stuff, and filling the system with the new stuff.
It's probably the same for the older stuff. I doubt the original refrigerant is available. The original stuff for the Firebird is hard to come by. It's been replaced with the newer stuff due to the EPA (or a similar organization). I bet you need a license for purchasing hazardous materials from the 6th dimension twice removed from that which we perceive as reality, whatever that may be, in order to purchase it.
What did they use for refrigerant back then?
|
|
By MoonShadow - 16 Years Ago
|
|
I had my 85 Mercedes updated with the new stuff. No problems! They have changed the formula over the years to make it friendlier. Old style refrigerant may still be found but is super expensive! Go with the update. Chuck in NH
|
|
By HoLun - 16 Years Ago
|
Compressor design has change alot since the 60s, the 80s design are pretty much like today's compressor, i believe its called the rotary vane compressor, but the 60s era uses piston type compressor that are similar to your shop air compressor, I don't know if R134A will work with those compressor efficiently, also, I really doubt the hose will be up to the task in keeping the refrigerant in the system, ideally you want the new barrier hose with R134A
the oil is also different, you cannot mix the oil, or refrigerant, or it will damage the system.
so to make this work, make sure all the old oil and refrigerant is completely out of the system, I also recommend flushing the system since its close to 50 years old, even if it was not used, a little dirt/corrosion/moisture will kill your system fast, you need the correct oil for r134a, new hose design for 134a, new seal designed for 134a, new receiver/drier for 134a.
and you will need a pressure chart to charge correctly, R134a performs poorly when overcharged or undercharged even slightly
Yes you need a license to purchase R12, I have that but never need to use it, as the stuff is insanely expensive, like 40 dollars for a small can
|
|
By MoonShadow - 16 Years Ago
|
|
I had mine done at a local shop. Your correct a complete flush and clean is needed. Also the R134 will have very slow leaks even in a good older system. It cost me around $150 to have the work done as compared to $120 for an R12 recharge! I have a T-Bird A/C kit that came with the new style rotary pump so I don't expect any problems to add it to my Vicky. Biggest problem is working out the belt arrangement due to my McCullouch supercharger. Chuck in NH
|
|
By simplyconnected - 16 Years Ago
|
|
The best way to answer this question is by deferring to the experts, who also give free technical advice:
http://www.classicautoair.com/Other_Models_Air_Conditioning_AC.html
I have purchased two systems from this company, and am pleased. That's my only contact with them.
It seems, every time 'they' change refrigerant, it becomes a little more environmentally friendly, but efficiency goes WAY down. Remember those old refrigerators that refused to die back in the 40's and 50's? They had one motor (the compressor), the condenser coils were always on the back, and the evaporator was the freezer, mounted high in the fridge for convection. They lasted forever. The refrigerant was ammonium-dioxide (ammonia), and efficiency is so high, huge malls use it today. Ammonia is toxic, so it can’t be in a confined space like your house or car. Malls compress ammonium dioxide outside, then transfer the cool to salt water (saline solution) pipes that carry it to fan stations inside the people-area. R-12, a non-flammable hydrocarbon, works ok, but isn’t nearly as efficient, and is strictly controlled by the EPA, requiring a license to purchase. It didn't start out that way. The ‘new’ R-134a barely allows car companies to guarantee 40*F at the registers, but it is politically correct (for now). Your cooling system is just that, a tuned system. The orifice and lines are engineered for a specific refrigerant. There are conversion kits available that seem to work (at first), but do not offer longevity because of incompatibility with older systems. The best advice is to call the experts who warranty their products. They make and sell systems to hot-rodder’s and can help you set-up yours. - Dave
|
|
By ibuzzard - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks for all the input.The unit is NOS,and I plan on having it gone through to make any changes/upgrades that are necessary.I would really like the luxury of cold air,think the new motor mctim is building won't be robbed of too much power/mpg,and don't want to pay for an expensive system from Vintage Air,or the like.Plus,I like the vintage look.I guess my best bet will be to take it to place that specializes in auto air and let them handle it.Steve
|
|
By crenwelge - 16 Years Ago
|
|
There shouldn't be that much problem changing to R134a. You will have to purge the compressor and charge it with ester oil. You will probably want to have new hoses made anyway. New Hoses and a new seal on the compressor shaft will make it as leakproof as any new system. As far as piston type compressors, they are still used in many over the road trucks. You will probably want to put in a new expansion valve any way. R134 does better with a larger evaporator coil than R12 needed, but it it will work with the original evaporator. We changed a lot of R12 systems to R134A in the 90's. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do it.
|
|
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
|
|
crenwelge (4/9/2009)
There shouldn't be that much problem changing to R134a. You will have to purge the compressor and charge it with ester oil.
Fortunately the ester bunny will be around soon
|
|
By Glen Henderson - 16 Years Ago
|
|
We just got some new M915A4 military Freightliners, they were rebuilt by the Texas National Guard rebuild site. These are new glider kits from Freightliner with 350 Cummings engines. The odd thing is that the AC ( yes for you old vets, we have AC and auto transmissions now) compressors are the old style York compressors that were used in the 60's. They are charged with 134A and everthing looks just like the old systems that had R12 back in the day. If recharging an old system, I would think that it would be a good idea to replace the dryer and all hoses, but I don't see why it wont work.
|
|
By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
I have changed a couple of systems over to R134, one worked one did not. the one that worked was in my '88 Ford Ranger with the later style vane compressor the one that did not work was an old Fridgidare R6 compressor. R134 runs a lot higher head pressure than R12 and the old style piston types don't want to hold, although Glen said that the Yorks seemed to hold up OK. Steve, if the aftermarket system is what I think it is, it will probably have a Yorks comp. on it and it may work but when it comes time let's talk maybe we can just use some "Freeze 12" it is an R12 replacement that is available for about the same price as R134.
|
|
By Eddie Paskey - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Hey Guys;; Be careful with these so call drop in refrigerants. Many have propane or butane mixed in the formula, if you where to have a leak inside the car and light a cig or any kind of spark it could be like a bomb. Holum is right you must change the oil to be compatible to which ever you are using. The condenser (front of rad.) will run about 20 deg. hotter with R134, so if you are having a heating problem be careful. My suggestion, stay with what the car came with or have a qualified shop or person that has the licence do the change over. I personally use R12 in my Tbird. with the condenser under the right front fender. has a electric fan on it. PLEASE be careful using any refrig. either R134 or R12 the comes out of the can at 29deg below 0. if it hits your eye it can be shattered. Retired owner and founder of The Air Shop, Santa Ana, Ca. Sold because of several back surgeries. was in business 21 years. Sorry to be sooo long winded--- just hope this helps!!! God Bless Ya All Eddie
|
|
By HoLun - 16 Years Ago
|
also do not get any refrigerant or oil that comes with "seal conditioner" they guarantee to kill your seals over time
and yes do be careful with this stuff, or any chemical for that matter, I got used to wearing personal protection at work, every time I work on something in the garage, i always wear safety glasses and nitrite gloves, I rather look like a dork while working on stuff now then looking like a dork for the rest of your life with a missing eye. and gloves make clean up so much faster.
|
|
By HT32BSX115 - 16 Years Ago
|
Howdy,
I wouldn't use anything that claims to be a replacement unless it's R-134.
Those replacements are absolutely Propane or Butane. If you were to EVER get a leak inside your car you could blow the the whole thing up (in your face  )
Just get the switch-over kit that includes the correct oil, O-rings, and R-134 compatible flush liquid. You must flush the whole system to purge out all the old (R-12) type oil.
It would be a good idea to just replace the pump, and filter/drier in the process.
Then flush the condenser and evap with the flush kit.
After that it's easy to evacuate and recharge.
Don't use flammable Freon replacements!
Cheers,
Rick
|
|
By ibuzzard - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Man,you guys,thanks so much for all the knowledgeable input.That's why I hang out here all the collective wisdom and none of the drama and personality wars of some other sites.Tim,this is a little down the road,but you know my truck,and I'll always follow your advice.I sure have time over here to contemplate projects-and plot how to persuade my wife, from half way around the world.Have any of you installed an under-dash AC,either recently or "back in the day"?Would love to hear about it.Steve.
|
|
By Glen Henderson - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Back in the day at the Ford Dealership that I worked for, I sometimes installed two aday. Dealer installed A/C was very popular in the 60's & early 70"s here in the south. They charged $125 labor to install a kit, so if a mechanic could knock out two aday he had a good payday for the week.
|
|
By timmy4 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
About 10 years ago I converted a few from freeon 12 to 134 with a kit I bought at a local parts store. You have to drain the compressor oil as much as you can and add the newer oil and change the filter and evacuate the system and replenixh with the newer 134. Later on the parts store told me about a product that replaces freon 12 called freeze 12. I tried it and it worked very well.
|
|
By ejstith - 16 Years Ago
|
|
I've changed a bunch of my stuff over. 92 Ford truck, 88 Honda Civic, 89 Bronco II and all I ever did was take the lines loose (the ones I could get loose with out boogerin' them up) and I shot some mineral spirits through the lines and then some alcohol. Put the system back together and pumped it up to 50# (with under hood temp at 90-100 degrees) and was good to go. Have worked for years ...
|