FRONT SUSPENSION QUESTION ABOUT DROPPING TRUCK


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By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
i wanna drop my truck from the front i have a 57 f100 with leaf springs up front a friend of mine told me to pull out some leafs and that should drop it but i started wondering if that would put to much stress on the rest of the leafs left another friend of mine has a 63 van with the same suspension as my truck and he had his van dropped what they did was unbolt the leafsprings and they put them underneath the axle and bolted the u-bolts back on everything seems fine he dosent complain about the ride and says he hasent encountered any problems would you guys recommend i do that is it safe also i know you can get dropped axles but due to money issues im tring to do everything the safe non expensive way what would you guys recomend
By Nathan Soukup - 16 Years Ago
I tryed taking a leaf out and it seemed dangerous.the axel on a 57 will almost hit the pan.You can put the axel on top of the spring with a custom mount.The axel on my 60 seems to have a drop in it to give extra oil pan clearance.either way its a ride compromise.just make sure you can put it back when you get tired of bounceing around.
By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
lol i get you i dropped my truck from the rear put the plates under the diff and it dropped my truck 5.5 inches i need to c-notch my frame and put smaller shocks its real bouncy right now but thats cause my shocks are compressed all the way in right now so would you recommend me put the axle ontop of the leafsprings make a custom bracket and put everything together n put smaller shocks of course is it safe or what would i have to worry about
By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
also if move the leaf springs under the axle would it be safe like road worthy or would i have to reinforce everything
By Nathan Soukup - 16 Years Ago
youll need to do something about the shocks,either shorter ones or move the mount upwards to gain more travel.it probally wont be bouncy if you keep all the leafs in place.A custom mount is the way to go,but make sure its made by someone who knows what they are doing.I have made one for a customer of mine in the past.The only issue was the pan clearance.you can also get dropped springs from speedway motors that are a lot easier to deal with.I think they run under 400 bucks for a set.I think they drop the truck about 3 to 4 inches which is better for pan clearance.thats the way I would do it now.
By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
iv heard of d-arching the leaf springs is that safe or would that put to much stress on the leafs
By Doug T - 16 Years Ago
Although it is done a lot and mostly people get away with it,  just removing a leaf or two is not a good idea.  Leaf springs are designed with a certain span between the ends of the leaves and this is doubled by removing a leaf, therefore the stress in the remaining leaves  is increased a lot.   It lowers the vehicle because it also reduces the effective spring rate.

De arching the springs is probably a better bet if you have access to a good spring shop and your current springs are in good shape.  This essentially changes the initial zero load postion of the spring but does not materially effect the spring rate.  Your can also add a full second leaf under the main leaf to increase the spring rate and still lower the truck.

Have you considered using monoleaves?  I asked on this site earlier about monoleaf springs but there was not too much relevent experience forthcoming.  The other sites I checked had mixed opinions and I was not persuaded to try them or not to try them. 

When the springs are fully compressed and hard on the rubber bumpers, the shocks should be at the full comprerssed point of their travel no matter what springs you have.  

By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
so what would you recommend i do safe and none expensive way to lower the front leaf springs under axle with custom brackets or d-arch them
By LON - 16 Years Ago
57 F100 ,

Try a search on Goggle . There are 1000's of " How To" articles on the web . Lots of tech ideas in Classic Truck magazine as well  .I have found a lot of interesting info ,a lot of it is on early F trucks .Hope this helps.

Lon

By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
nathan soukup (7/25/2009)
I think they drop the truck about 3 to 4 inches which is better for pan clearance.thats the way I would do it now.




With the exception of a dropped axle, and assuming that a solid axle is retained, won't the axle move closer to the pan, regardless of the method used to lower?



I've been using monoleafs up front for a while now. They provided about 2 1/2" drop. Good so far. The main argument I saw about them is if the spring breaks, you might be stranded. But aren't you in the same boat if the main leaf of a multileaf spring breaks? Didn't seem like a significantly valid argument to me.



Oh, the most cost effective way will probably be to have your springs de-arched. There will be a limit to how far you can drop it by de-arching, however.
By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
monoleafs sounds good i kinda like the custom bracket under neath idea i would justhave to see how much clearance i have with my oil pan seems safe to me
By Unibodyguy - 16 Years Ago
Charlie when yu did the Mono-Springs did you move them under the front axle or leave them on top?

                                       Michael

By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
It is still on top. I think any lower than I am will require notching the frame for '61 - '64 trucks.
By Doug T - 16 Years Ago
Hi Charlie,

I would be interested to hear about your experience with monoleaf springs and I think some others would be also.  If you have a moment could you please open a new topic and let us know what you did;  buy a kit,  have a good instruction article from a mag or other source another guy did it on a similar truck,  problems benefits etc etc.? 

Also are you coming to Columbus this year?

By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
Since 1961 and three pickups later, I have used just about everything to lower a pickup except a clip and mono leafs.  I always got what I wanted in stance, but never got what I needed in performance.

I currently run the axle on top of the springs to get as low as possible.  It resulted in about a 4 1/2" drop with stock springs and no interference with the pan.  When I reversed the eyes on the main leafs to lower it another 3", problems started to develop.  I did have interference with the pan so I raised the front motor mounts.  I had very little axle travel left before bottoming out on the bumper stops and that required me to "C" notch the frame and cut the bumpers in half.  The drag link looked like it was shooting for the stars and had to be made parallel with the ground while in the straight ahead position.  The normal fix is to heat the steering arm and bend it down (not for the faint of heart).  With the axle on top, it would not bend down far enough without the drag link touching the axle.  I "Zed" the drag link and now it has no interference.

It took a lot of work to get this thing to go down the road straight and I am still modifying it.  I have since installed a panhard bar and an extra set of shocks to get it stabilized at speed.

I have talked a few guys through this process because they were stubborn and cheap like me.  If you only consider about $.50 per hour for your labor, it is very inexpensive, but for the street, I would consider the mono leafs or reversed eyes on the main leaf for a medium drop.  For a wild drop I would use a mild dropped axle with a mono leaf (or reversed eyes on the stock main leaf).  Either way extra wide wheels deteriorates the quality of steering, so tire and wheel selection starts the "steering tuning" process.

  

By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
that same setup you have is what im looking for im not looking to bottom out the front of the truck but to drop it at least 2 or 3 inches would be more then fine for me that set up you have looks perfect
By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
That axle on top will lower the truck way more than 2 to 3 inches.  I have to say that there is satisfaction associated with solving a problem with perspiration and perseverance instead of picking up a catalog or going online to order your problems away.
By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
thats more then true if i put that set-up u have on your truck on my truck would i have to c-notch my frame or would i be able to put that set up on with out having to mess with a whole bunch of other stuff
By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
If your springs are re-bushed and re-tempered and back to original you shouldn't have too much problem.  If your springs are old and tired like me, you will probably have to at least shorten the rubber bumpers to get a little more travel before you bottom out.  I believe you can get a good idea of the new axle travel by measuring the travel available now and what it would be by subtracting the thickness of the axle and any bracket material you would need to use.  The decision to c-notch would come by comparing the axle travel (and ride) you have now and what you would have after the axle is moved on top of the springs and blending that thought with deciding what kind of roads you plan to travel over.

You would still have to deal with the drag link as mentioned above and if the caster isn't addressed, you will have nitemares with the resulting bump-steer.  When lowering a truck in the front, you have to imagine the king pins tilting forward developing negative caster.  The stock specs for caster is 0 to +3 degrees.  After I put the axle on top of the springs, the king pins were -7 degrees.  You wouldn't do what I did, but I rotated the axle back to +8 degrees to run more true at speed. 

By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH so much stuff lol i know it aint gunna be easy but imma try my best imma take the front leafsprings out make a bracket put the springs underneath bolt everything back on and hope it works am i missing anything?
By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
Well, at this point you better PM me with questions.  I'm sure the Y-Block guys are looking forward to reading more about engines.
By BFOOTER03 - 16 Years Ago
Charlie whats a good engine for if the truck isn't sitting in the weeds?BigGrin 

57F100 there are many ways to drop your truck and most people will have different opinions but as long as you are happy with the final product that is all that matters.  I choose the following methods.  Front: reverse eye main leaf, 3" inch drop axle and removed 2 leaves.  Rear: reverse eye main leaf, 2" drop shackle and flipped the front hanger.  Final drop was about 6" all around.  I am happy with the stance but can say it is a pain in the ass to do any work under the truck as it is to low to slid under.  Different strokes for different fokes.

Bing

Before  Drop

BeforeDrop9-07-1.jpg picture by BFOOTER03

After Drop

Passengersideandboat.jpg picture by BFOOTER03

By pegleg - 16 Years Ago
57FordPU (7/27/2009)
Well, at this point you better PM me with questions.  I'm sure the Y-Block guys are looking forward to reading more about engines.

     Charlie,

             You might move it to this and that, but definitely keep it public. A lot of us didn't realize the amount of work and thought this required. Another question, have you considered an article on "my Yellow Truck" for Legendary Ford. I'll bet Colin would be interested.

By matt2491 - 16 Years Ago
Yes please keep this conversation on the public forums. I'm interested too.
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
I agree, keep it public.
By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
LETS KEEP IT PUBLIC yes its hard and lots of work that goes into dropping these trucks iv been thinking about taking out 2 leafs from the front on each side and see if the truck drops down but im scared that the let over 3 wont handle all the stress from the weight of the motor n stuf
By Doug T - 16 Years Ago
Here is an article by Detroit Eaton Springs about monoleaf springs.  It rains on Monoleaves pretty hard for safety reasons.

 http://www.eatonsprings.com/monoleaf.htm

If you go to their home page you can also download a discussion of springs and some of the considerations for non stock selections.

I think for the front of my truck I will be using springs with a stiffer rate than stock, reversed eyes, and some de arch. This kind of work can be done by local spring shops, so I am hoping that this will be pretty economical also.  I have a HD truck pan that is a little deeper than a pickup pan which limits how close the axle can come to the frame.  I hope to add a antisway bar and maybe a Panhard rod to keep the axle centered under the truck.  I take Charlie Burns concerns about keeping the steering linkage as nearly horizontal as possible very seriously.

BTW I think this kind of discussion is very appropriate for the Y block site since it will ultimately keep more Y powered vehicles operating.

By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
what if i leave my front leafsprings ontop the axle n i take out 2 leafs out how would it effect my suspencion and would the remaining 3 leafs handle the weight of the motor plus truck
By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
Frank,

Thanks for the comment about a potential article in LFM.  I have sent Colin a file of info and shared a willingness to write something.  We are talking about it, but it may be a while.

Bing,

Love the truck, love the stance, you should be proud.  Are you still going to Columbus?  I know everyone there would love to see the truck. 

I just read an article in the July 2009 issue of Hotrod & Restoration Magazine (a trade mag).  It reminded me of the need to make sure the pinion angle is where it should be to keep the needle bearings spinning properly in the rear u-joint (especially when you drop it 6 inches).  Traditionally the engine/transmissions are mounted with a 3-degree downward angle and the pinion must be adjusted with leaf spring shims to a 3-degree upward angle.  This keeps the driveshaft level and those bearings spinning.  I lowered the rear axle in mine, but I didn't give it enough upward pinion angle.  I needed to change that as the u-joint bearings got a little flat last season.

57f100

In your last question about just leaving 3 leaf springs and leaving everything else alone, this is what the stance could look like.

I ran this 57 (I used to like 58 grilles better) on the street for 20 years like that.  It did fine with only 3 leafs left, but make sure they are the top three.  It could get a little bouncy, but new heavy duty gas charged shocks will help.

As I mentioned before, I always got the stance I wanted, but not the performance I needed.  There are many areas for gremlins to show up and rob you of the ride and steering quality that was experienced by owners when the trucks were new.

No matter which way you go, attention to a few small details will help.  Charlie Mc mentioned that he purchased new bushings and shackles, very important.  Anything to tighten up the axle will help (I currently use a panhard bar).  Another thing to look for is worn bolts and bolt holes in the spring hanger.  Attached is a picture of the egg shaped holes that were in mine.

Before...............

After welding the holes and redrilling.............

As a final note to this post, all your hard work may still be disappointing without a trip to your local front end alignment shop.  Modifications and repairs may only be half of the job needed, new shocks and a proper alignment including toe-in is easily the other half.

By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
IMMA DO IT  lol imma take out 2 leafs from the top from each side ill let you guys know how it goes
By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
ok so i was under the truck today to see how much i would be able to drop it and i was looking at the oil pan and it looks like i have 3 inches before the axle and the oil hit what can i do about that
By matt2491 - 16 Years Ago
Can you post up a picture showing what you've got going on under there? I've done what you're trying to do and can maybe give some advice...
By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
thats very true ill take a few pics and post them n see what you guys can tell me everything is stock up front havent changed nothing the leafsprings are straight there not arched ill take some pics tommarow morning and post them up for you guys
By John Mummert - 16 Years Ago
If you can find one at a reasonable price, lol, a T-Bird oil pan will give you about 2 more inches of clearance.
By 57f100 - 16 Years Ago
would the t-bird oil pan fit my 272 with out bothering the oilpump