More inferior parts on Ebay

More inferior parts on Ebay

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By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago

Item #190336094054 on Bay.COMPLETE set of 16 valves for Ford y-block.$92.50.When I enquired as to where they were made the response-PAKISTAN believe it or not!What is scary is that people have actually purchased these in the past from this seller judging by the feedback.This seller is buying from someone else who is buying from wholesaler I assume.How much did they cost from the manufacturer?Not much I think.Another case of getting what you pay for-buyer beware!

By Ol'ford nut - 16 Years Ago

Pakistan!

They don't even make cars there. Must be a rug manufacture going thru tough times.

By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago

It was going to cost the Chinese too much to make them in China so they were outsourced as they say!

By 46yblock - 16 Years Ago

One of the big sellers on ebay has main bearings made in Mahle (sp?). Dont know where that is but it doesnt sound good!

By Nick Brann - 16 Years Ago

Hi, Mahle is a brand name. They apparently have merged with Clevite, since they use both names on their bearings. Big supplier to Nascar. Mahle is a huge international company, and I have never heard anything but good about their bearings. Saw lots of them when I worked in the auto parts business. If you get some of their bearings, they may be manufactured in Germany or the U.S. or somewhere else. Good luck, Nick Brann - K.C., MO

By 46yblock - 16 Years Ago

Thanks for informing me!

By 55Birdman - 16 Years Ago

MALI is a country in West Africa a power in 1200-1600 BCE. Very wealthy nation because of salt mines and gold being panned in the Niger River. Mostly famous for Mandinka tribes . Now it is so broke it cant pay attention.

By BIGREDTODD - 16 Years Ago

oldcarmark (9/22/2009)

Really?

I am going to play devil's advocate here, if only for argument's sake. Are you saying that these are "inferior parts" because they are made in Pakistan? Or are you saying that because they are made outside the U.S.A.?

As we are all aware, several well-known brands have outsourced manufacturing to foreign countries to help both profitability and maintain competitive. Generally, joint venture manufacturing utilizes low-cost laborers, and existing tooling patents/technology, but I won't go into that because anyone can research the way that works.

What I am saying is perhaps you should contact one of the folks who has purchased the valves (or any given product) and ask them how they worked out before you blindly attack the quality of a remarkably priced good/service. Mind you I have no connection to this seller or any of their products, nor do I want to turn this into a public service announcement, but sheesh...

By 46yblock - 16 Years Ago

Guys, it is an embarrassing incident. I think Charlie is close to right. Mahle, Mali...

By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago

We seem to have taken a detour from Pakistan!Are we anywhere near China!

By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago

Getting back on track, I have no idea about the quality of the Pakistani valves at $92.50. But, I think I would pay the extra $12.50 for a stk set from John Mummert Y-block. That's the price listed in a YBM ad from 2008.

By Ol'ford nut - 16 Years Ago

CEREAL KILLER (9/22/2009)

Well, I have to admit, BIGREDTOD has a point about contacting someone who has bought the valves and used them. But how do you do that through E-Pay? As for 55 Birdman, I can't figure out WHAT your talking about in relation to MALHE engine parts. You been smoking fan belts again?? ha,ha

I have done this before- you just need to look at feedback on seller, then contact some of the buyers and ask.

By 55Birdman - 16 Years Ago

Guys I didnt mean to embarrass anyone. I was just trying to clear up a bit of confusion about a country and a manufacturer both of which are pronounced the same way. And smoking a fanbelt every once in a while is good for my sinus . I do think Mahle is closer to being pronounced like Mail isnt it?

By BIGREDTODD - 16 Years Ago

Ol'ford nut (9/23/2009)

I have done this before- you just need to look at feedback on seller, then contact some of the buyers and ask.

Well, I posted the following question last night to 3 buyers of these valve sets:

I see that you bought a set of stainless valves for a Y-block Ford from vintagemc313.

I am thinking of doing the same, and was wondering how the quality of the parts was? Any concerns or issues with the valves?

Thanks for your time,

And received the following two answers this morning:

1. So far have not had any problems with the valves! Put them in a customers engine. Bob Moulton

2. No problems.

Given the upcoming head r/b on the Bird, I am really tempted to grab a set of these.

By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago

Did you ask how long they have been in use?I see John Mummert has a complete set(stock) for $186.00 or so.Personally if I was in need of valves(and I may be when I get my heads off)I would rather spend another $90.00 or so and get a set from a reputeable seller who (I hope would) stand behind what he sells.I still believe(and from experience know)-you get what you PAY for.The quality of something purchased is remembered long after the price is forgotton.I just read Steves posting.When you purchase "öffshore" items like these valves do we know if anyone is checking qualiy control?MAYBE they are fine.Maybe the purchaser is actually the "quality control tester".Judging from what I read in another posting on this site about lifters made elsewhere I still think the "name brand" is a better bet.Just my opinion.

By GREENBIRD56 - 16 Years Ago

I absolutely refuse to defend poor engineering and workmanship - but.......the company I work for buys and resells some heavy duty machine parts made in China. And some made in South Africa - and some made in Canada and some made in England.....

My experience with these parts is that when forced to comply with the specifications and inspection doctrine - the Chinese (and the others) can make good stuff. When they have screwed up - and I've caught them before - they make it good - we get new parts made to spec. We inspect everything like hawks - because we warrant everything 100% - even if I have to have the replacements made overnight at a high dollar shop - its our policy.

I have dealt with suppliers in several US states (that cost more) that dodge the specs and don't make good when they are caught. When they get on the outs with us - its hard to get back on our "list" - because we warrant everything we sell. We don't buy knock-off stuff that isn't made off our prints - the engineering and development costs are higher - but the safety, strength and fatgiue life is our call - and we live with it.

I'm not writing this to toot our horn - the point is that someone in the good old USA is participating in bringing this junk to America - and selling it - without owning the design and without inspecting the goods. These are Americans doing this - not offshore interests. One of the guys wrote that his outfit was trying to use an offshore vendor that just couldn't make the metallugy correct - and they abandoned the project - the point is....they didn't participate in selling a sub-standard product. They went about looking to build the "right-stuff" and didn't accept junk or try to re-sell it either one.

By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago

Charlie! You are exactly correct.Unlike Walmart the cheapest price should NOT be the prime consideration all the time.To be fair to the seller that actually inspired this discussion I have emailed him back asking for more info about who distributes these or if there is a company name associated with these.I will let everyone know if I get an answer.

By i.abomination - 16 Years Ago

Having spent considerable time in Pakistan/Afghanistan, I have to say it could go either way - they keep their little toyota hiluxes on the road every day on mountain roads and I can't keep my truck on the road for more than a couple days at a time, hahah.

However, having purchased plenty of paki goods, I'd probably pass on these items, haha

By Nick Brann - 16 Years Ago

Hi Friends, I'll go along with Charlie in that our American consumers only look at the price of something, cheap is everything. They often end up buying something twice because the first piece of junk falls apart. Quality and value are not taken into consideration. Something that hasn't been covered here is the potential danger involved with the part in question- it's one thing to buy a cheap water pump or fan belt, but valves and lifters? Very risky business. I would feel like a fool if I bought some off-brand valves and one of them came apart the first time I hit 5,000 rpm.

I'm not kidding when I call you guys friends- even though I haven't met you face to face, I feel like I know a lot of you and I appreciate the good info and advice that I've received. Maybe I can make it to Columbus next year. Nick Brann - K.C., MO

By aussiebill - 16 Years Ago

Nick, couldnt agree more!, people only think Cheap! then whine when the obvious occurs! I am often asked" wheres a good place to get chrome done?" i reply with, "joe does the best job, but its initially expensive!$1000.00." Oh! is there someone else cheaper? "yes there is, initially,! $600.00 but will cost you $1200.00 - $1600.00 in the end when you have to get it redone properly at the 1st guys place!!!! I can only suggest for the inexpeirenced to make enquires, dont rush in, shop at reputable dealers, mummerts for example, and buy once!! best regards bill.

By LM14 - 16 Years Ago

I have a brother-in-law that works for Imperial-Clevite/Mahle (they have had several owners in the last 10 years but always keep the Clevite name on bearings for brand recognition) and he can tell you all about outsourcing. A couple years ago they outsourced the manufacturing of main/rod bearings to India. After 6 month the plant in India was NEVER able to meet specs and the project was scrapped. Not a single Indian bearing was sold. The manufacturing was brought back to USA.

I have tried some "cheap" valves a few times in our claimer type circle track motors, but never again. I have lost 3 motors in the last 2 years to valve breakage. Even limiting the RPM to 7000, they won't hold up. That's with 135# seat pressure on the springs and mildly radical solid lifter cams.

I looked at these valves for my Y-block rebuild, too. Walk away. Buy quality valves above all else. What is a piston, rod, cylinder wall, head and all the parts to rebuild a motor worth compared to the amount saved on a cheap set of valves?

We have a few sets of Mahle pistons. They work very well up to 12:1 compression but above that I would recommend going to JE, CP or Wiseco.

Good luck,

SPark

By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago

Now I have some more interesting information.I emailed Macs and Tee-bird asking about the source of their valves.All Macs would tell me was theirs were "aftermarket".No other info offered.Tee-birds valves are "Elgin"however they are marked as being from where else but China.Perhaps John Mummert would like to offer some information about the ones he sells as far as where produced.Interesting Eh!

By Fordy Guy - 16 Years Ago

When I was growing up my dad was always harping to me about the cheap stuff I was always buying and using the savings to put in my gas tank(cruisin') I would buy cheap tires and auto parts and my dads favorite saying while he shook his head at me was "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR SON". As I got older and had more sense, I started to see that my dad was a pretty smart guy.

Now that I am 64 today, I can look back and say my dad was a very wise man and taught me a lot about quality/price. I guess it's never to late to learn.

Bud- Winslow AZ

By Glen Henderson - 16 Years Ago

Happy birthday Bud! Seems as if everthing that I have got from CarQuest lately has been made in China. I mentioned this too the parts guy the other day and he was as upset as I was. They are located in the same building with the regional whse and are only 15 miles from me, but I think that I'll start driving the extra distance to NAPA.

By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago

Hate to say it Glen but I think you will find the same thing there.Its not the retailers-its the manufacturers.But really at the end of the day its the buyers fault.Everyone wants to buy things cheaper.The "Walmart" mentality.Cheaper is better!

By speedpro56 - 16 Years Ago

When I buy a part from napa they try to find the part made somewhere besides China because I have had problems with bearings etc made in China ( They don't last long ). Knowing I like higher quality and will pay more for a better product they can usually find the same part sometimes referred to as an upgrade made in Isral, USA, Japan, Mexico or Canada. Yes I do ask for parts made in USA first and soforth and so far I've been lucky. Now when it comes too electronics all bets are off.

By aussiebill - 16 Years Ago

Gary, its sure an interesting topic and sooner rather than later there will be no more quality parts available from local dealers, Being in the automotive repair trade for over 30 yrs, i often recount the days when a customer remarked about quality parts to be fitted to his car, a local Holden (GM) and i would show him the TRW brand ball joint boxes lined up on shelf, all with same P/No but clearly labled, Made in" argentina, china, japan, taiwan, mexico, australia! and that was 23 years ago. Thats why old NOS parts are allways dearer. Best regards. bill.

By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago

I just got a good deal on Ebay I think.Bought 8 NOS Elgin intake valves made in the USA for $26.95 and 6 NOS Sealed Power exhaust valves made in the USA for $26.95.Still looking for 2 more exhaust valves but I am sure I can find them as well.I bought the bigger intake valves but the seller has another set of the smaller intakes for the same price.I feel more confident buying these valves than the new ones made overseas. Item # on the standard size intakes is 370262353170 if anyone is looking for a set.He also has other NOS aftermarket valves listed.

By Ol'ford nut - 16 Years Ago

You wonder where all this comes from- I did a search for valves and found over 900 suppliers in China that export this stuff by bulk. Intake and exhaust valves are $1- $2 each and connecting rods are $2-$5 each. You send them the specs of what you want and they build it. I even found one that manufactures Caterpillar engine blocks!

By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago

Cereal is on to an important point. Valves are not an area of an engine to go cheap on. Years ago my buddy's 292 dropped a valve at 55 mph. It may have been over revved previously, but in any case it cracked the piston, bent the rod, damaged the combustion chamber & snapped the crank at the journal... Not an occurrence you want to contemplate!

By crenwelge - 16 Years Ago

Mahle is a German based global company that has absorbed companies world wide. Their history closely parallels Rockwell which later became Arvin Meritor in the US. They supply a lot of OEM. Whether that is good or bad can lead to endless discussion. However, my first choice is to find NOS on eBay. Part of my enjoyment of tinkering with my old jalopies is installing the same parts I used 50 years ago. My last choice would be offshore parts with a name I have never heard of or no name at all.

By speedpro56 - 16 Years Ago

MAN, do I SECOND that motion!!!!!!!!!!

By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago

charliemccraney (9/23/2009)

Glen Henderson (9/23/2009)

I think that I'll start driving the extra distance to NAPA.

Take a closer look at the Napa packaging.

It's everywhere, home supply stores, retail stores like sears, electronics stores. Even the name brand stuff. All made in China. We are in a bad position. We are far too reliant on other countries for the things we use everyday. Just think what will happen if China is to cut us off tomorrow. We will be up ship creek without a boat or the means to build one. We have the know how but what good is it if the machines (which are likely acquired off shore), factories, and all other logistical devices are not in place. They will not build themselves overnight.

That's enough from me. Y'all can tell I don't like the whole deal.

By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago

charliemccraney (9/23/2009)

Glen Henderson (9/23/2009)

I think that I'll start driving the extra distance to NAPA.

Someday the "Walmart (cheap, but good enough") crowd will reap the whirlwind, after all quality producers have been driven out of business.

By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago

46Y talked about bearings made in mahle. Because Mahle is a manufacturer, the bearings cannot be made in Mahle. They can be made by Mahle. Birdman made the connection between that which 46Y said and a real country, Mali, in which bearings can be made. It is very likely that 46 knows of Mahle, the manufacturer of quality engine parts, but this knowledge has regressed, moved into the subconscious and so he associated the spelling with a country which he has heard of, and again may be subconscious, but does not know the spelling.

That's my guess.

By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago

I've heard it pronounced like mahl, and mali. Mali being the most common I've heard.

By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago

That is a question I ask myself sometimes. If they know it's inferior, why do the Americans continue to sell it? If a manufacturer can not produce a product to specification, why continue to use them? It seems that bottom dollar has infected the American mindset. We need to understand the difference between the best price (bottom dollar) and the best value. Unfortunately, I think that would be like getting a cow to do calculus.

Don't buy something simply because it is cheaper. Do a little research to find out if it is worth the savings, which sometimes can be minimal.

By Hoosier Hurricane - 16 Years Ago

Nick:

We consider you a friend also. When you get ready to come to Columbus, there are a couple of regulars who are from Missouri, maybe you could get hooked up and travel together.

By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago

Glen Henderson (9/23/2009)

I think that I'll start driving the extra distance to NAPA.