|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
Here it is, I pulled a valve cover and it looks like someone was running tar in this engine... So what should I do? What does this likely mean? What are the options for a guy on a tiny budget just trying to get the engine runnning? Will running some modern oil in here break up that sludge? How do I know if the modifcation to get oil to the valvetrain was ever made..I assume if things are this dirty the cam bearing oil passage to the valves is clogged? 
|
|
By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago
|
|
You can start by taking the rocker shaft apart and cleaning out all the gunge.The shafts are hollow for oil to fill up.The shafts have a plug in each end which you can remove by drilling a small hole in the cap and screw in a sheetmetal screw to pull out the caps.The arms have a hole in the front and back for oil to come out.Coat hanger wire is about the right size to clean out the holes.The passage in the head may or may not be plugged.Once you have the shafts off you can check the passage and let us know by posting on this topic.Once you get it back together run it with fresh oil and see if you have oil to the rockers.You may have to try some engine flush after you get it running to get some of the rest of motor cleaned out.And yes I have seen this before-on mine!The result of not maintaining the motor with regular oil changes.When the Y-block replaced the Flathead owners thought you could just keep adding oil like they did with the Flathead and neglect oil changes.Hope this helps and don't hesitate to ask questions.
|
|
By paul2748 - 16 Years Ago
|
Do as OLDCARMARK says. Once you have the rocker assemblies off, spin the oil pump (if the oil presently in the engine is okay looking)to see if oil comes up the supply holes in the head.
You can spin the oil pump by pulling the distributor and using a 1/4 inch drive, 1/4 inch deep socket on an extension or extensions in an electric drill (1/2 inch is best) spin the pump counter clock wise (drill in reverse). Tape the socket to the extension to make sure that it does not come off.
If you cannot get oil, try rotating the engine a little bit and try again.
Another thing to try if no oil comes up is to blow pressurized air down the supply hole. Listen for it to come out from inside the engine. This may also clear the passageway (supply)
|
|
By GREENBIRD56 - 16 Years Ago
|
Assuming this engine is still in running shape - try it with the valve covers off and have a look at what's going on. If it still has the oil return tubes open (located at one end of the rocker shaft and pointed down into the engine galley) they should be squirting oil. The Y isn't like a chebbie - you won't get a bath - but try to be on a somewhat level or "nose down" attitude. An individual noisy rocker arm can be found and quieted with a gloved finger when running this way. In the photos, it looks like you may still have some (or all) of the "skinny" original style pushrods. As part of your valve train clean-up, you may want to find a set of the tubular pushrods. They will be a worthwhile addition and are sometimes found for a reasonable price.
|
|
By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Along with the a fore mentioned maintenance, you need to check the oil filler cap underside, as it is the only intake for the crankcase venting. It's likely plugged solid with dirt, resulting in no crankcase ventilation, & causing sludge. Clean it well or if not possible, replace it. Then check the drivers side crankcase vent canister on the lower side of the block (if you engine has one?) If so there is a filter screen in there that needs to be clean.
|
|
By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Just another suggestion-try and buy a shop manual for this car.They are available as original or reprint(Ebay is good) and you will find it VERY useful for mechanical repairs etc.
|
|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
[quote]oldcarmark (10/28/2009)
The shafts have a plug in each end which you can remove by drilling a small hole in the cap and screw in a sheetmetal screw to pull out the caps.quote]Thanks OCM! Once I drill this hole do I need to replace the caps? Or do I leave the holes plugged with sheet metal screw (seems kinda risky to leave 'em in)
|
|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
[quote]paul2748 (10/28/2009)
Do as OLDCARMARK says. Once you have the rocker assemblies off, spin the oil pump (if the oil presently in the engine is okay looking)to see if oil comes up the supply holes in the head.
quote]Thanks Paul, where is the oil supply hole in the head? I have only removed the drivers side valve cover, I see a tube at firewall end of the head, that comes up and then bends down and seems to go into the rocker shaft? Is that the "supply Tube"? When I remove the shaft will that pipe come with it and leave a "hole" behind in the head?
|
|
By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
That is not the "supply tube" it is the overflow tube the oil is supplied to the rockers through the head, take the rocker shaft off the head and you will see a hole that feeds the second (or third tower depending which side of the engine you are on) that is the hole that needs to be cleared.
|
|
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
|
That pipe you see is the drain tube. It dumps the oil into a pushrod hole which goes to the valley and into the crankcase. To see the supply hole, you will have to remove the rockers.
Since you are on a budget, I wouldn't worry too much about the rockers at this point. Squirt some oil in the pushrod cups, slide the rocker arms to the side and squirt some oil on the shaft, and get it running. Once it is running, watch each of those drain tubes. If oil is flowing you are good. If not, then dig deeper and spend the money that has to be spent. Running it for a minute or two will not hurt anything. Really, running it without oil getting to the rockers will not be as bad as you think so long as you remember to oil them manually once or twice a week. I got by doing that for a couple years. Once I did take it apart, the shafts did not look as bad as I had expected.
Remember Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle - when you observe something you change it. Your rocker arms are in perfect shape until you take them apart and look!
|
|
By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Paul mentions turning the engine to get oil to the top, this is because the older cams are cross drilled not grooved and the hole in the journal needs to line up with the holes in the cam bearing to move the oil to the rockers so you may need to turn the engine over very slowly by hand while spinning the pump to get oil to the heads.
|
|
By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
charliemccraney (10/29/2009)
Remember Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle - when you observe something you change it. Your rocker arms are in perfect shape until you take them apart and look!Good point! 
|
|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
mctim64 (10/29/2009)
Paul mentions turning the engine to get oil to the top, this is because the older cams are cross drilled not grooved and the hole in the journal needs to line up with the holes in the cam bearing to move the oil to the rockers so you may need to turn the engine over very slowly by hand while spinning the pump to get oil to the heads. Tim, one question, what is the best method for turning the engine over by hand?
|
|
By Hoosier Hurricane - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Nate: A couple of points. I think '56 had the grooved camshaft, so turning the engine shouldn't be necessary. Secondly, you only have to put a screw in one plug in the rocker shaft, because once you pry the first one out, you can use a long rod to drive the other one out. New ones are available at your local parts store, they are small freeze plugs.
|
|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks John, Glad I have the groove...groovy! What is the best way to turn the engine by hand just to be sure it isn't siezed up and be sure no valves are sticking? Thanks for explaining the plugs at the end of the rocker shaft...I was wondering about that. -N
|
|
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
|
|
A socket on the crankshaft bolt and a breaker bar.
|
|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
charliemccraney (10/29/2009)
A socket on the crankshaft bolt and a breaker bar.Cool! That is what I'm used to but I'm always a little worried about breaking that bolt...I've heard horror stories...
|
|
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
|
Well, one thing you can do is to use a torque wrench and set it to the torque for that bolt. Use the torque wrench instead of a breaker bar to see if it will turn over. It should require far less torque than that required to fasten the bolt to turn the engine over. That way you should not break the bolt and if it does not turn over then it is probably stuck.
Or, to put it in another perspective, I'm 130lbs. I can turn mine over with the truck in gear using a breaker bar with one arm. It takes two arms for me to torque that bolt. So I'd say if it requires more than one arm to turn over, it's stuck.
|
|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
charliemccraney (10/29/2009)
Well, one thing you can do is to use a torque wrench and set it to the torque for that bolt. Use the torque wrench instead of a breaker bar to see if it will turn over. It should require far less torque than that required to fasten the bolt to turn the engine over. That way you should not break the bolt and if it does not turn over then it is probably stuck.
Or, to put it in another perspective, I'm 130lbs. I can turn mine over with the truck in gear using a breaker bar with one arm. It takes two arms for me to torque that bolt. So I'd say if it requires more than one arm to turn over, it's stuck.Perfect, thanks for the extra advice Charlie, I'll move ahead with the one-arm test approach
|
|
By NewPunkRKR - 16 Years Ago
|
|
I've taken the plugs out and turned it by hand before.
|
|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
NewPunkRKR (10/29/2009)
I've taken the plugs out and turned it by hand before.You mean literally, by grabbing the front crank pulley with your hands?  I've done this with a fresh engine on an engine stand and it was hard, but getting the grip and leverage when it is in the car seems almost impossible. Actually, I'm probably just scared, I tried grabbing the front crank pulley and turning it with my hands already (plugs still in) and it didn't even budge...I had a stab of fear in my heart that this engine might be toast....so I'm going to just continue believing that turning by hand is impossible so I can keep hope that this engine isn't seized up.
|
|
By crenwelge - 16 Years Ago
|
|
I have been up in Iowa a few days with no cell and no wifi and haven't been reading posts. I remember you asking somewhere about the mileage. From the looks of the engine, its never been into. Its a good possibility that it is low mileage. If someone would have been in it, they would have probably cleaned up the rockers. This thing was born when non detergent oil was still very common and your engine doesn't look that unusual. Somewhere I saw a glimpse of the front seat cover. It looks original. My guess would be that this thing is a very low miler.
|
|
By Doug T - 16 Years Ago
|
|
If the car is stick shift, another good way of turning the motor (slowly!) is to drop the sheet metal cover over the flywheel and pry on the starter ring gear with a long screw driver. You can develop a great deal of torque without risk of damaging anything because the screw driver blade will break or bend first.
|
|
By MoonShadow - 16 Years Ago
|
|
You can also put a stick in 2d gear, get some friends to help and rock it! Chuck in NH
|
|
By aussiebill - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Nate, try all the other good time proven suggestions then with optimism at its greatest, pull the plugs, squirt some gas down each cyl, put car in 3rd gear and rock it back and forward, this has the greatest torsional effect and if it rips the engine mounts out then its stuck!! best regards bill. rip the
|
|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
Do your brakes shoes have to be unfrozen from the drums to be able to rock the car ??My brakes are so frozen I can barely move the car an inch with 2 guys, even with the clutch depressed. I've got her up on jack stands (all four corners) right now with the wheels removed, I want to get the drums off and get at the brakes... I will start with the crank bolt...it should move pretty easy, I'll take it slow..if it doesn't move, maybe I'll try the screwdriver on the starter ring gear...I just want to know if the engine will move at all, if it does, then I should feel pretty good about being a little more agressive with the breaker bar on the crank bolt. Thanks for all the great ideas!
|
|
By crenwelge - 16 Years Ago
|
|
I always turn the flywheel to try to turn a stuck engine. I start by pulling all the spark plugs out and be careful to mark the wires so you can put them back where they came from. Buy a quart or two of Marvel Mystery oil and a funnel with a long flexible tube and pour some of the oil into each cylinder. Let it sit a day or two. Jack the car up and put it on JACK STANDS. Do not rely on a jack alone while you are under it. Make sue the transmission is in neutral. Buy a pry bar while you are buying the Mystery oil. Remove the tin cover on the bottom that is between the engine and transmission. This will expose the flywheel ring gear. Use the clutch housing as a leverage point and I am quite certain that you can get it to turn over. Turn it over a complete revolution before you try to spin it with the starter. The fact that the rear wheels are hard to turn is no big deal. The drums have accumulated surface rust over the years, but you will want to replace the master cylinder, brake hoses and all the wheel cylinders before you drive it any way.
|
|
By Big6ft6 - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Kenneth, that is my plan! I hope it goes just as you said!! Right now I've got to work on getting those drums off, they are really stuck.
|
|
By MoonShadow - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Don't forget to back off the brake adjusters on each wheel. Should help getting them loose enough to take off. If there is a wear groove on the drum and you don't back off the adjustment your are in for a real struggle! Chuck in NH
|