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By Noob - 16 Years Ago
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I've used the SEARCH function and found some helpful info... just enough to stimulate more questions on my specifics... so pardon the separate post. I hate the 3-speed in my `57 bird... it throws to long, it's sloppy, and three just aint enough. I had a four speed Toploader in a Cobra kit almost 20 years ago, but I remember it as somewhat sloppy and long also. The posts I've read make the T-5 very interesting... and obviously much more modern. So for me, the trade-off beteen them is going to be install difficulty and degree of floor pan/frame modification. I've read that a Chevy S-10 tail shaft can "easily" be exhanged on a Ford modle T-5 to move the shifter forward, but still wonder how much tunnel will still need to be cut away and patched. Also, some here mentioned a needed modification to the x-frame, but some more details (grafting, reinforcement, relocations) would be really helpful. And lastly, I wonder if a Mustang rear support could be modified or is the rear support totally custom. I sounds, again from what I've read, that the Toploader is more straightforward, and perhaps somebody makes a short shift kit. Any thoughts, challenges, and details would be greatly appreciated. Cheers... Brian
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By Vic Correnti - 16 Years Ago
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I have a 1955 bird with a toploader using the Hurst Competition shifter coming out of the stock shifter hole. I made an aluminum block that bolts to the transmission and bolted the shifter to that to fit the stock hole. I also threw away all the linkage that comes with the shifter and made my own using ball ends and 3/8 or 7/16 rods because the Hurst linkage is very sloppy but if you are not racing you could live with them.
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By suede57ford - 16 Years Ago
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I am about to do a T5 in my '57 bird. I plan to order Mummert's adaptor as it rotates the transmission slightly towards the driver, to help shifter placement. I plan to use a hust short throw shifter base with stops on it and bolt a modified original handle on it. Richard Miller has a T5 in his '55 Bird and has driven it all over. It works well. You may ask him what is involved. The T5 is shorter than the original trans, and you can make your own mount. I have run both Toploaders, T5's and TKO's in my sedan and the 5 spd is the only way as far as shifting, smoothness, and ability to drop the RPMS on the highway even with 4:11's. Do not buy a T5 unless it is for an 87-93 Mustang 5.0 only!(beware of swap meet deals on 4 or 6cyl ones). The Toploader is much stronger if you are using slicks or abusing it with a high horsepower motor. That is when a Tremec TKO come into play. The TKO is physically much larger, and that is when major mods come into play, but it is bulletproof. I am going to upgrade to a TKO and modify my bird before I start racing it.
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By John Mummert - 16 Years Ago
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You don't want to use an S-10 tail housing in a T-Bird. The standard Mustang shifter location works well as is. The clutch disc must be changed but the pilot bearing,throwout bearing and pressure plate can be retained. A diaphragm pressure plate is a nice upgrade. The drive shaft needs to be lengthened approx 3". The T-5 is realtively compact and fits well in 57 T-Birds.
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By lowrider - 16 Years Ago
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I'm considering the same swap, except my car is a 57 Custom 300 (short wheelbase). Do the same modifications hold true? I'd rather have a toploader, but a T5 would be better with my 4:11 gear. The clutch modification is pretty straight forward, but what about the shifter, trans mount and driveshaft for a T5?
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By Noob - 16 Years Ago
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Thanks fellas for the replies... Vic, from your signature picture it looks like you got a nose bleeder... is that why you went Toploader, cuz it stout? I'm gettting that that's the reason some of folks I've read prefer the TL vs the T-5. Dan why do you prefer the TL but will "settle" for a T-5... just cuz of your axle ratio? John, I'm pretty comfortable about the mating part (guys like you have done all the hard stuff by making parts available and identifying interchanges), and I suspect we'll be in contact commercially for several things... I got a sweet tooth for your website. Its good to know that I dont need to shorten it with the S-10 tailshaft... cuz there were some speedo cable port mods that didnt sound inviting to me. Hopefully Richard Miller and/or others will yet chime in with some details or even pic (woot woot) of any tunnel mods or rear support mods... that's what's got me spooked most... true confession, I'm not strong in the fabrication department. Cheers... Brian
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By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
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I'd definitely do a T5 for the street. The better stock ones are rated for about 300ft/lbs. The one available from Ford Racing is good for 330ft/lbs. This torque rating is not as critical as it sounds. Even if your engine peaks at 400ft/lbs, it will not be sending that through the transmission all the time. I bet it will be rare that you exceed that specified limit. The relative handful of times you do give it all that torque, should not hurt it. mctim64 is using a turbo 4cyl mustang T5 in his truck with a stout Y and hauls a camper around with it. If that isn't proof for how tough they are then I don't know what is. They've been proven to be pretty tough behind Mustangs, on the street and strip. They have overdrive. They can be built to support about as much power as a TKO, which is realistically more than capable of handling the most powerful street Y. I believe they are lighter than a toploader. I don't know but I'd bet that there is about the same amount of work involved, so why not get overdrive. The last time I checked, a new T5 was cheaper than a toploader, by the time it is rebult - this may not be the case if you already have a toploader to rebuild.
Many of these are reasons I went with a T5 over a toploader or TKO.
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By kidcourier - 16 Years Ago
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I agree with Charlie on going with a T-5,after all Ford didn't put them behind 5.0 GT Mustangs so they could go bankrupt doing warrenty replacements.You may take a look at the hp/torque of your Y-block and compare it to the hp/torque of a '87-'93 5.0 GT Mustang(knowing not all those GT drivers were casual shifting).Also the price of a TKO or toploader is not cheap(check David Kee's website for prices on parts/rebuilt toploaders) where as a Z-T5 from Ford is under $1300, and with some internet shopping you can find a good rebuilt T-5 (87-93 watch the torque ratings as they arn't all rated the same)for $600.No matter which trans you go with basic parts are going to be the same--- turn flywheel(or new one) clutch,pressure plate,throwout bearing,new speedo gear,front yoke,driveshaft mods,new universal joints,shifter(and linkage if toploader)and mods to trans crossmember to name a few. The toploader trans in 4th gear is a 1.1 ratio --the T5 is either .63 or .68 in 5th which means you can run a lower rear gear around town and still have a decent rpm level at freeway speed in 5th or higher rear gear makes freeway flyer. Running in 5th(OD) your engine/drivetrain will be turning less revolutions then a toploader which means less wear on your drivetrain(longer between rebuilds) and gas savings due to increased mileage,just a few things to think about.Oh,while your on the internet check out shifters for the T5 there are several manufactures who carry them (including Hurst for that nostalgia look). That's my 2 cents! KID
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By suede57ford - 16 Years Ago
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You can add any shifter handle you like to a T5. The Mustang tail shaft shifter has a 3" stick with two threaded holes sticking up out if the tranny. Take any shifer handle you like, shorten it to the length that feels and looks good, drill two hole in the lower part of you handle and simply bolt it ot the stub sticking out of the T5. I do use a Hurst internal rail shifer top bolted to the T5 with positive stops that shortens the throw, especially if you use a long handle. No need to mess with the S-10 stuff in a TBird or '57 fand up full size. The internal linkage and wider ratio makes the T5 superior to the toploader.
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By Noob - 16 Years Ago
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Again, thanks for the input. I'm about to pull the trigger then on a t-5 and have been thinking all along that the 2.9:1 first gear series is what would be right with my stock 9" rear gears and about 300 hp at the motor. The 3.3-ish first gear setup is cheaper but it seems like it would mis the power band on a Y. Any thoughts on first gear ratio for sporty street and occassional tire melt performance? I need to make this call pretty quik for a number of reasons. Cheers... Brian
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By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
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Either one should feel stronger. Your 3spd is probably around 2.78 for 1st. I think the 2.9 ratio will be the stronger of the two. I'd be more concerned with the overdrive ratio with respect to keeping it in the powerband. If you're shooting for 300hp, then the motor is probably not stock. Based on the parts you've chosen, where do you expect the power band to fall? Do the math to see where your RPM will be for your cruising speed with each transmission and choose the one that is the best fit.
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By LON - 16 Years Ago
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Just to back up what Pat said .Be careful ??.I thought I scored a cheap T5 ,only to find out in came from a 1985 6 cyl Falcon .Checked every measurement ,except the length of the input shaft .Turns out it's shorter than the V8 and is too short for the Y-Block bellhousing .You live & learn .(Sometimes ?? ) Lon PS . For Sale T5 suit ............???
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By Tom Compton - 16 Years Ago
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56 Vicky w/ 3.73 rear gears. Have the T5 w/ 3.30 or 3.31 1st gear. The low first gear helps on parkng lots and such but when the 317 cid Y is punched, be ready to shift. It comes on so fast the tach gets whiplash. OD is .67, with my combo (tire diameter P235/75/15) @ 70 mph cruise, rpm is just over 2,000. Go for the OD vs the TL unless you are only racing or have a monster Y, sliks and limited slip. Merry Christmas
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By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
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As Charlie said I have had very good luck with my 4cyl. T-5, I do haul a good load with it and I do mash down on the go peddle too. If you are going to be burning up the street/strip you may want a V8 tranny, I've been fortunate but I don't do hard launches every day. I have the "low" first and like Tom has said "be ready to shift" I can easily start out in second without a load on this thing.  I 've posted this before but you can see how quick you need to shift and also what the Turbo 4cyl tranny can handle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28gtzOJdHqg
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By Flying Jester - 16 Years Ago
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If anyone is ditching the toploader, no matter how trashed it is , I'd be interested in it.
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By Rono - 16 Years Ago
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I had a friend help me install a T-5 in my '56 Customline. I used John M's adapter with the stock bellhousing. Don't forget to shorten the pilot about 1/4" at the end of the input shaft so it doesn't bottom out. We fabricated a new tranny mount and usd an early 70's Ford LTD driveshaft that was shortend, but I can't remember how much exactly. I'm running a Ford 9" with 3.70 posi and a Hurst Billet plus shifter. I really like the entire set-up and have no complaints about anything. Rono.
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By miker - 16 Years Ago
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I used the Z spec T-5 with the 2.8 something first in my bird with a 3.33 (3.31?) rear gear and stock size tires. With my 340 cid, it'll turn 9" cheaters, but maybe not well enough for racing. But it starts out just fine even on the hills in Seattle. I used the .8 5th, with my rear gears the 67 would be a little useless under 85mph. Shifts like butter, up and down.
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By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
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The Z Spec t5 should have a .63 overdrive. Were you able to have it rebuilt with the .8?
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By Tom Compton - 16 Years Ago
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I agree that .67 w/ rear gears taller than 3.73 would be too low for "Legal" cruise - unless the tires were real small. The .67 OD w/ 4.11s would be a GREAT improvement.
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By Noob - 15 Years Ago
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I went with a z-spec T-5. Had to perform some serious tunnel surgery to install with the motor still in place. Stole and idea for a modified tranny mount from one of the fellas on this site. Also took advice here and went with the Centerforce II diaphram style clutch. Still in progress... installing shifter this week end and hope to see her self-propel up and down the driveway... still too snowy for street trial. 
Cheers... Brian
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By mctim64 - 15 Years Ago
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Wow! That's one hell of a trench you cut in your floor.  Guess you gotta do what ya gotta do.
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By bird55 - 15 Years Ago
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Hey you swiped my trans mount patent! Just kiddin'. Looks good!
Do want to sell that dial matic seat setup? I would be interested.
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