Some obvious people would be: Karol Miller, Doan Spencer, Racer Brown, Barney Navarro, Bill Stroppe, John Holman.

In studying the design of the Y-Block you will see the name Ricardo mentioned but how many know who he was and what he did?

Although not necessarily involved with the Y, people such as Ed Winfield need to be remembered or future generations will miss out a great deal on the contributions of some truly talented individuals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Ricardo

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/misc/ricardo.htm

WOW!  Very interesting read.

DonW

He experimented with deck height and found that too much was detrimental back in the 1920's! There are graphs that show the relationship of deck height vs HUCR. As deck ht. increased, HUCR went down.

He understood that turbulence could help keep the air and fuel homogenous something that is lost on engine designers to this day. If the air and fuel go their separate ways an engine won't make the power it should from the amount of fuel consumed, even if air fuel ratio is correct.

Although his testing was done on flathead engines operating at 1500rpm on 76 octane fuel (highest available at the time) his findings are in many ways still relevant.

The best thing about his writing is that it can be understood by a lay person. There are no half page equations, just simple explanations of his findings and graphs that make sense.

The only translation I needed was the term: "and c" which is at the end of many sentences. Finally figured out it meant "etcetera"

A story was related to me that Sully saved Henry a fortune when Ford was sued for using bottoming taps. Someone had patented the idea and was trying to collect. Sully was able to prove that Ford used them before the patent date and saved Ford big $$. Haven't verified this story.

While I'm certain that all of the folks you mention appreciate the pat on the back, we have had years to sort out the Y-Block. The original engineers had only a few to design it from the ground up.

Karol Miller showed up at Bonneville with a year or two development time and ran 155mph in a 56 Ford sedan he drove there! I can't imagine exceeding that mark with years of trial and error.

In 1956, Racer Brown made 271 uncorrected horsepower with a 312, ECZ-C heads, 3-2 Edelbrock intake and a mild Isky cam. Plenty of guys have built Y-Blocks in the last few years that would be very happy to have matched that.

Ed Winfield was a true genius. He revolutionized camshaft design and is still considered one of the best. He also designed his own carburetor and I believe a OHV cylinderhead for the Model T. Any piece of vintage speed equipment that says WINFIELD on it is highly sought after today.For a quick bio go to  http://harveycrane.com/secrets7.htm

Harry Ricardo made tremendous strides in the study of combustion efficiency, detonation and general engine design 90 years ago.

Well said.  I appreciate the centiment but I can't be grouped in with the early guys, I'm just a grunt who build engines with the knowledge that I got from other people.  Thanks though.

Don "Sully" Sullivan was a great character in Ford history. Here is one article of him:  http://www.thehotrodsofdearborn.com/sully.html

"After finishing up the flathead and a few other projects, Sully became resident engineer at the Cleveland engine plant where six-cylinder and 256 cubic-inch Mercury flatheads were built. But by the early '50s, he had been transferred back to Dearborn to apply his talents to Ford's NASCAR efforts. Later, he was charged with improving camshaft, valve train and oiling system design on high-performance versions of the 292 and 312 Y-block V-8s. However, before he could bring about any significant changes, the 1957 AMA ban on racing took effect, and performance activities were temporarily put on the back burner."

Also here: http://www.livingimagelegacy.com/fortmyers/sully/index.html

       I guess you'll need another chapter in the book. Or, maybe another book. you'll need to add Payne & Parham, Feistritzer, probably Eaton, and some others (Harry Hutten, Wally Kerstein, etc, Dick Brannan- Romy Hames ran an F code.)  I tried a couple of years ago to get John Feistritzer to write some of his memiors down, didn't get very far. Might be a good place to start, here and now  while we can all remember our names and aren't drooling on our shirts. 

      One of the main reasons I decided to build the red car was to show this generation what was "overlooked" by Peterson Publishing and most of the rest of the aftermarket experts.

Looks like Kathy's getting me this one for Christmas.  Thanks for the suggestion John. 

Lon

Bob St. Lawarence, didn't he have something to do with a freight train?

http://www.wadragracing.com/joomla2/component/option,com_joomlaboard/Itemid,26/func,view/id,12968/catid,3/

Charlie, bobs cars were all named Saint Train.

I,m sure we all wish him the best for his next achievment. regards bill.

While thinking over Bob st lawrences career and curtain call, I have some old pics of how he did it in the 60,s!  Just good old lets try this and see what happens!  Also picture of his old hand fabricated steel engine, fashioned on y block/FE with Hemi heads, it is rebuilt and in his rail ready to run in next week or so.  NOTE! it is worth spending some time checking all the links and story within the link i posted earlier.  How do you say what you think of such a man, an inovator and certainly seated in the y block hall of fame!

Lon

I really think the Aussies have a LOT of very creative rodders, perhaps because you couldn't waltz into Walmarts and pick up a stroker crank or intake. We, outside of this group and others like us, have lost that.  Everything except Miker's roadster seems to be a glass bodied 32 with a scrub in it, stateside.

I hauled a tidy pedal assembly from an MGB to a swap meet about 15 years ago. It had pb booster and master cylinders ready to bolt up to firewall and not one guy out of maybe 10,000 even looked at it. I knew how much we had lost in creativity. They'll buy a $600.00 pedal kit then complain about the cost of "building" a car.

Jep, that's why I didn't buy 50-60 dollar push button plate from Chassis Shop. I made my own for zero euros. Not as good as their, but it'll work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5O5_4jpweY

Seriously, I don't think anybody on this site can be accused of taking the easy road. Just taking a 50 year old car and getting it back on the road is quite a challenge.

John Mummert (12/2/2009)

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Let's not forget the Fin's while we're talking about creativity. I love to see guys make stuff instead of buying it, unless of course, its something I sell

.

You are so right John, I didn't mean to leave them out I was just kissin' up to the aussies this time.   Let's hear it for the land of Suomi!

harasho (russian phrase) = good/so-so

In early '70s when hot rodding and drag racing was still primitive in Finland we got popular expression when someone asked (American) why we didn't use more ready-made American racing and custom parts. Importing those parts was much more expensive than it's today and living was in any case like living behind Iron Curtain (politically).

1988 Motopark, Chrysler 1928 1/2. I'm assisting burnout. 

If you watch the video, you can witness the respect and admiration from Bob's fellow race enthusiasts.  If there hasn't been, a book should be written to capture the innovations of pioneers like he and Karol Miller.  From what I have seen, they share the same spirit as Bert Monroe (marching to the beat of their own drum).

http://images14.fotki.com/v371/photos/1/1060941/4403233/horne1-vi.jpg

And some story from H.A.M.B.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421628

Hollow Head (12/3/2009)

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Aussiebill, you just made my day and got me laughing like a monkey . At that time I was something like 14 and I sure wasn't there.

BTW.. I sure feel outgunned by age and widom here.. I crawled into the Texas Pan-Handle in the year of our lord Niniteen Hundred and Eighty Three

Hollow Head (12/3/2009)

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Ted is my inspiration, as is Charlie Burns also. Charlie has shown us that age is no reason to be out of control. You can always start doing folish things in your life. Is it racing, building hot rods, screwing Y-blocks or what ever. I just can't imagine myself doing all this at the age of 60's... so I have to do it now .

Seppo,  It didn't take Charlie till his 60's to start acting this way he was also doing it in The 60's.  I hope he doesn't mind but I'll post some pictures of his Scooter racing from back in the day.

Maybe Charlie can come back and elaborate on the photos.

Sorry Seppo, I should share the magazine more often.  However, the only words I can understand are "Charlie Burns".

I had to run that 650 Triumph on pump gas for the record runs and mostly did 13s, but I have some time slips in the low 12s while running on nitro.  I never burned a piston or had any problem on fuel because I ran it so fat.  For bracket racing, instead of a staggered Christmas tree, we had a flag starter and the handicap was in measured car lengths on the track.  The unburnt fuel wasn't a problem for faster cars (who started behind me) because of being inclosed, but the other motorcycles used to curse me.  When we reached the other end, the motorcycle guys who couldn't catch me had big tears in their eyes, saying, "What the hell are you burning in that thing".

Were those the "good ole days" ?...........yep 

As I recall a mid 60's Bonneville was a mid 15 sec ride, stock. Looks like you were having fun.

What an eye! It has been over 40 years ago, but I remember those Hush Puppies (do they still make them?).  I have to chuckle when I think back to the safety requirements.  If all the bolts and nuts were tight, you were good to go!  The only requirement was a helmet and jacket of any kind.  Even those were not strictly enforced (see attached photo).

I had a machine shop class at Fresno St. and did all the engine work there.  The instructor used to raise one eyebrow when he would see timing gears, cams, rocker arms and pistons in his lathe.  It would run, I'll have to say that.

There are those Hush Puppies again............

It was a 1965 unit construction T-120 Bonneville model.  Like so many other former owners of their favorite machines, I still wish I had it.

That "Snortin" Norton must have been a handful.  I am jealous of your BSA.  I still drool when I see those English bikes at shows and gatherings.

I figured out that the British twins used a 360 degree crank, with both pistons moving together. Most of the Japanese twins used a 180 crank, pistons opposed. That gave them a totally different sound. The exceptions were the Honda 250-305 Dreams and the CB160's. The Super Hawk and Scrambler 250-305's used a 180.

Got me hands on a CB160 and built Desert straight pipes for it out of some Buick straight 8 breather pipes, cut up and welded. Sounded like a Triumph, or as close as I could afford in high school.

You are so right.  The sound of those twins were sweet indeed.  For a while I drag raced a 66 Lightning for the local BSA dealer.  The next season I switched rides to a 750 (stroked 650) Triumph drag bike for the Fresno Triumph dealer.  That was followed by my Triumph for a few years.  My brother still has a 750 Royal Enfield Interceptor.  Each and everyone of those bikes had the greatest sound, especially my Triumph with TT pipes.

Interestingly, my first motorcycle purchase was a new CB160 in 1964.  I had a great time drag racing it and with only straight pipes and velocity stacks, I set three different strip records for its class.

I'm still impressed with Frank's 850 Norton going 12s.  That was flying for a heavy bike like that.

Over the years, these stories fall on deaf ears when talking to young people.  They try to compare with the crotch rockets of today and the fact that they all could out perform any of these bikes right from the show room floor. 

You know, it would be fun to jump on a hayabusa and do 10s or go to Bonneville and do over 200! 

     Might have been dumb luck, but I really never had much trouble with that bike. Kept it 14 years. Crank was lightened (and flywheels) Jerry Branch did the head, Factory Sport Cam and kit. Pair of 36 mm Amals and Conti's on the stock head pipes. Together with a BIG rear sprocket. That's about it. Rode it to Denver and through the Rockies (from Ohio), My buddies brand new 85 Harley broke, we pulled it to a dealer in Denver with the Norton. That's me, the Harley, him and his wife, on the end of a rope for about 15 miles. Never heard much more Bad mouthing about British bikes from him after that

bird55 (12/19/2009)

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Losing WHAT audience?

here's the one I redid and had for awhile. I shipped it out your way, Charlie.
Great loud sound and one of the few shots of it without a spot under it.
Also had a BSA 440 victor that was slow, but it would go straight up the side of your house!

Sweet! 

Hollow Head (12/19/2009)

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Lucas... The Prince of the darkness ! That's what they teached to me about auto electronics at school back in the late eighties.... And I belive every word about it!

I worked for a British sports car shop while I was going to school and worked for a British dealership for a while when I got out plus all the Brit cars I've owned and I can say it is pretty much the truth what they say about Lucas, but it sure gives the cars character.

If you look in "Y-Block Magazine" you will find his ad with a picture of a running rodent in it.  The company name is Der Meece Machine (inside joke -long story) and his sub title is "Kreative Hash Jobs and Real Fierce Engineering Notions".  Yep, that's Cliff.

When I first met him he was machining AMC pacer overdrive units to be bolted on to the back of top loader 4-speeds for a few friends.  We thought of doing one for the yellow brick that would split all the gears on the way to 1-to-1, but decided against it.  Some time back he was offered 13 complete Y-Blocks and I think he still has 6 or 7 left.

He has set records at Bonneville and has raced at El Mirage.  I believe he has only raced Y-Blocks at the lakes in SoCal.  He has owned a 56 Ford pickup for many years and has had a fair number of Y-Blocks in it.  One of the Y-Blocks was a supercharged 256 that ran in the 13s at the local drag strips.  On the other end of the spectrum, the biggest engine was a 427 SOHC "Cammer" that still sets in his shop.

Cliff tries to come to El Mirage and watch us as often as he can.  His health keeps him home more often than he would like.  He is a great support and we talk on the phone frequently.  He doesn't do computers just like our friend Jerry Christenson.  In fact he and Jerry talk regularly on the phone.

If I think of anything else, I'll post it later............. 

mctim64 (12/19/2009)

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Hollow Head (12/19/2009)

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Lucas... The Prince of the darkness ! That's what they teached to me about auto electronics at school back in the late eighties.... And I belive every word about it!

I worked for a British sports car shop while I was going to school and worked for a British dealership for a while when I got out plus all the Brit cars I've owned and I can say it is pretty much the truth what they say about Lucas, but it sure gives the cars character.

Lucas having been in the refrigeration business is why the Brits have learned to enjoy warm beer.

Cheers... Brian

Spent some time with him ealier in the year at a local swapmeet. A great guy to talk to on the phone or in person.