Narrowing Temperature Range


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By GREENBIRD56 - 16 Years Ago
My outfit (312) runs 100°-105°F over ambient - with this temp taken at the thermostat housing. So summer day at 105° ambient - the housing is 210° - and winter (Arizona) the temp goes down to the thermostat setting (160°F) and hangs there. These temps are taken from a long static idle (burn down) test. I'd like to get the range narrowed down so the idle tune is a bit more constant - so I gathered up this set of parts...

A high flow, 180°F, Mr. Gasket thermostat (big block Chrysler size) with three added 3/16 bypass holes drilled in the nose.

Single groove pulley from a '69 302 motor, aluminum spacer to accomodate the deeper nose, and a brass plug to shut off the bypass hose - so all of the water flow has to go through the thermostat / radiator.

The spacer is 1.0" thick with a long enough nose to engage the (six blade) fan bore directly - fan mount is right on the pulley face. The smaller diameter pulley should net about 20% overdrive (relative to the original pulley). The closed off bypass may not be good for Michigan warm-ups - but my engineer's brain keeps telling me it ain't a good idea to have a 5/8 hose bypassing the radiator on a 105° day. 

I'm sure others have others must have tried this before - does it work? This is for a driver car - belts loose at the track.

By Flying Jester - 16 Years Ago
You got more guts than me, trying a Chrysler thermostat and a windsy pulley on a 312!
By 1964fordf100292 - 16 Years Ago
that spacer that you used, where di you get it?????
By GREENBIRD56 - 16 Years Ago
I have a machinist across the alley from my office that builds aluminum telescope parts and fancy heat sinks for Raytheon. Gave him a drawing and bought lunch .....offered to pay for the work. Anyway, the piece showed up with a N.C. invoice - which means I'll be trading something for it later on.

I think one of the commercial 1 inch thick fan spacers will work (like from Speedway or?) - as long as the nose pilot sticks out of the C9 pulley far enough to hang the fan. I just put it on the inside instead of the front. 

PM me an email address and I can send you a PDF file of the spacer (or whatever works).

By oldcarmark - 16 Years Ago
Hello Steve! Just curious.Why are you using a 180 stat when a 160(same type) is available from Mr.Gasket.
By GREENBIRD56 - 16 Years Ago
I've got the 160°F Mr. Gasket high flow part in there now - Ford spec in my book was 157°. But with the original '56 spark advance scheme, three blade fan, etc. - the 'Bird wouldn't cool worth a tinker's d@#$%n. So it seldom went near the low setting and a good bit higher in summer. When I got the ignition sorted out and working to suit me, six blade fan - I ended up with that huge summer - winter swing (like 210°-160° = 50°). Does crummy things to the idle mixture.

I'm thinking (and hoping) that the upper number drops due to more water flow and then the 180° low end coming up will make the idle mixture requirement a bit more stable. A guy pointed out to me that the 5/8 "short circuit" bypass hose was letting a considerable amount of water escape the trip to the radiator. 

By Flying Jester - 16 Years Ago
Just wondering, what vehicle is this in, and what year?
By GREENBIRD56 - 16 Years Ago
Little green machine above. Or belowHehe

P1010373Medium-1-1.jpg new nerf bars picture by AZ28_7442

By Ted - 16 Years Ago
AZ28 (11/24/2009)
.......and a brass plug to shut off the bypass hose - so all of the water flow has to go through the thermostat / radiator.

The closed off bypass may not be good for Michigan warm-ups - but my engineer's brain keeps telling me it ain't a good idea to have a 5/8 hose bypassing the radiator on a 105° day. 

I'm sure others have others must have tried this before - does it work? This is for a driver car.

Another purpose for the bypass hose besides allowing the heater to work prior to the thermostat opening is to relieve the potential for an air lock in the top of the timing cover.  Rather than eliminating the bypass completely, I’d suggest putting a restrictor in the hose to allow any air that’s in the upper part of the water pump and timing cover to be bled back to the intake and then back out to the radiator.  A 3/16" hole in the plug you have should be more than adequate in relieving any air that's trapped.

I’ll add that modifying the bypass is a good idea providing the thermostat is modified to always let some flow past it when it is closed.  This permits the thermostat to open in a more regulated manner.  You’ve already mentioned that you have modified your thermostat with some extra bypass holes so that part is already done.  I’ve blocked the bypass in the past on other engines with success where the cooling was marginal but always made sure that there was still a way to get residual flow past or around the thermostat when it is closed.  On the Y and due to the design of the timing cover, a small amount of bypass is needed though.

By GREENBIRD56 - 16 Years Ago
"I see.....said the blind man" - the air bleed-back feature, when the engine is stopped vents air bubbles up to the intake manifold. Drilling the brass plug for an air bleed won't be a big deal for sure.

For those that haven't seen the thermostat modification -here's the place where the three holes get drilled in the "Robertshaw' style of t-stat to replace the bypass.

By GREENBIRD56 - 15 Years Ago
I finally got a chance to go out in the garage and put all of the danged watersupply parts on the T-bird. Everything fit together OK - and that small pulley really makes the fan whiz (its about 20% overdrive). The extended nose of the 302 pulley doesn't look too bad in there, but T-bird guys will know the nose spacer is missing right away. It reduced the required fan belt size from 40-1/2 to 40 (I've also got a reduced size alternator pulley in the mix too). I put the restrictor in the bypass hose with a 3/16 hole as Ted recommended.

Testing....The temperature here wasn't cool enough (below 60°F) to see the "cold weather" performance - and it won't get over a hundred here until May. In a short term idle test, the thermostat housing was running right at 170°F - still true to the 100° over ambient I found before. With the radiator cap off - and looking in there with a flashlight - things seem to be stirring a bit more than before. Seems like there could be a calibration problem with the 180° thermostat - or the three holes in it are passing  plenty of water for idle cooling at this ambient temperature with the fan and pump cranked up. 

I understand why Eddie Paskey is running a clutch fan on his outfit......but at idle it would still be moving right along as long as it is a speed type clutch and not a "thermostatic" type.

Got rid of the goofy "Caution - Fan" sticker I had on the shroud and painted the fan tips like a prop....

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago
Steve, love that propeller! should have the T bird goofs rolling in pain, ha, ha.Tongue
By Duck - 15 Years Ago
Steve; I really didn't care for the look of your "Caution Fan" sticker, either- I pondered it for a few days and (believe it or not) did the same thing on my fanBigGrin Great minds do think alike.... /Duck
By DANIEL TINDER - 15 Years Ago
GREENBIRD56 (2/8/2010)
Seems like there could be a calibration problem with the 180° thermostat - or the three holes in it are passing plenty of water


If the additional bypass holes in the thermostat lower it's minimum running temp in every case (?), them maybe starting with a 190 degree model might be best?

Also, I'm considering this mod. (plus bypass hose restrictor) as a form of thermostat failure insurance (I believe the fail-open brands only come in high-temp/small opening configuration?).

By GREENBIRD56 - 15 Years Ago
I don't quite know what to think about the low(er) temperatures I was seeing - below the 180° rating anyway. I haven't looked for a 195° version of the big poppet thermostat - but I don't think Mr Gasket offers it in the large OD size (if at all). Maybe Stewart Components?

It makes sense to me that allowing the bypass water through there would be slowing the warm-up temperature some - but after 15 minutes in the garage at idle (even at 65°) - it should have been wide open. The Mr. Gasket "Robertshaw" style of thermostat has a 1.50 poppet and opens about .43 inches when its wide open - so there is a pretty big passage when it needs one - but at the tested temp, it would barely be cracked, if open at all. Maybe this particular t-stat is just calibrated slightly on the cool side. 

My only other explanation is that the increased pump and fan speed is doing some other deeds in this equation - like feeding cooler water into the engine and circulating it more rapidly. I am guilty of making too many changes at the same time here. Should have installed the modified thermostat - tested for a stable idle temp....then fitted the bypass plug...... and after that, fitted the pulley.

By 55vickey - 15 Years Ago
I'm running the NAPA #6 stat, if I restrict the by-pass, is there a way to modify the stat for some constant flow? Gary
By GREENBIRD56 - 15 Years Ago
I believe the "big poppet" NAPA thermostats - have 1.50 internal openings too - with a narrow 360° rim of tin around them that spans over to the opening in the intake manifold. That is where you might look to drill some holes. I don't have a feel for what sizes might fit the space.

The 5/8 tube (original bypass) has about .2 in² cross-sectional area and this arrangement we are talking of using has about .11 in² total (4 x.188 holes all together).

By DANIEL TINDER - 15 Years Ago
GREENBIRD56 (11/25/2009)
"I see.....said the blind man" - the air bleed-back feature, when the engine is stoppedvents air bubbles up to the intake manifold. Drilling the brass plug for an air bleedwon't be a big deal for sure.







For those that haven't seen the thermostat modification -here's the place where the three holes get drilled in the "Robertshaw' style of t-stat to replace the bypass.




Steve,



Is that a photo of the "Mr. Gasket" 180? It looks slightly different than the one I have (mine has a raised shoulder between the poppet and outer rim).

I just did the "stove-top" test: It STARTS opening at 160, goes to 1/8" at 180, and doesn't open fully (1/4" plus) until it hits 195-200. Wish I had a spare to cut open & examine, so could be more confident/precise with the drill.
By GREENBIRD56 - 15 Years Ago
I think that the vendors of the thermostat vary the design a bit. I know what you mean about drilling the hole into "unknown" territory - but the "pill" that operates the thermostat has plenty of space back there if you go easy at it. Mine have been done by using a spring centerpunch and 1/16 starter holes. The one in the car now is the 180° part.