By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago
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I recall a warning to watch for oil smoke from the fill tube during engine/cam break-in. Makes me wonder if it might be wise to disconnect the PCV before start-up, or would manifold vacuum at 2000-2500 RPM be inconsequential in that regard? Or, would it be a definite advantage to eliminate corrosive blow-by fumes until break-in is completed, and a protective zinc layer is laid down?
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By aussiebill - 16 Years Ago
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Daniel, i think the Xmas pudding might have had too much brandy in it!.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago
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Oh yes. I HAVE been known to go squirrel hunting with an elephant gun. But, it does seem a bit silly to watch for smoke from the crankcase if it's all being sucked into the intake manifold?
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By Ted - 16 Years Ago
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Break the engine in with the PCV hooked up. If you have enough blowby to overpower the PCV, then you’ve got a problem. You’ll want to get the engine on the road as soon as possible after cranking it so that you can get some ‘heat’ into the rings and get them properly seated which means having everything hooked up so you can do this in a timely manner. Too much ‘no load’ running or idling on a freshly rebuilt engine can glaze the cylinder walls and make ring seating just that more difficult.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago
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Ted,
Are you inferring that the recommended 20 min/2000 rpm stationary cam break-in is no longer valid? I HAD planned on a long test drive after draining the break-in oil to undertake the traditional aggressive ring break-in/de-glazing routine. I understand that the first two minutes after fire-up will determine if anything is wrong with cam/lifters, but hadn't heard any reports of irreversible glazing after 20 min at 2000, plus 8-10 minutes at 1500 (after resetting the lash). I also planned on cutting the tops off some old valve covers for run-in, and if I don't have the oil restrictors sized right, driving off immediately could get messy.
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By Ted - 16 Years Ago
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DANIEL TINDER (12/28/2009) Ted, Are you inferring that the recommended 20 min/2000 rpm stationary cam break-in is no longer valid? Daniel. I didn’t mean to make it sound like the camshaft breakin period needed to be shortened up. I was trying to reference those engines that end up idling for 2-3 hours or more before they actually hit the road. I see too many of those and have to contend with ring seating issues as a result.You still need the 20minute/2000 rpm breakin procedure. If the cam is going to go bad, it’s going to start doing it within the first two minutes of running but it will take up to twenty minutes to destroy enough of the lobe and lifter to make it noticable. But that intial breakin period in the garage stall still gives enough time to check for oil and water leaks and get the tuneup in the ballpark before hitting the road.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago
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Since I have a whole case of Penn break-in oil anyway, I plan to change & inspect oil & filter after cam run-in (got one of those FilterMag doohickies and a cutting tool), and then use the rest for the ring break-in/shakedown drive. Then, after everything is ship-shape, change and inspect again, refilling with regular Penn oil. I assume break-in oil is best for the drawn out de-glazing drive?
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By kevink1955 - 16 Years Ago
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Daniel Do not get to crazy over some metal in the break in oil. On my 312 breakin and 500 mile oil changes I viewed the oil in the drain pan in bright sunlight and the oil looked like metal flake amber paint. Scared me but the oil pressure has not changed since the first time it ran and runs great. Only problem I ever had was the oil consumpion went up to a quart in 500 miles on this years ford carslile trip and also on the way to the CVA convention. It turned out to be PCV related and after disabling the PCV it burned nothing on the way home from CVA. 10,000 miles on it now and it's still runing great and a recent blackstone report finds no problems.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago
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Good to know. As long as each successive change looks cleaner, I won't panic.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 15 Years Ago
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Ted (12/28/2009) Too much ‘no load’ running or idling on a freshly rebuilt engine can glaze the cylinder walls and make ring seating just that more difficult.
Ted,
The controversy/flap over the last few years re: defective lifters/camshaft lobe failure, and the ZDDP content of oil has sort of pushed the importance of ring seating to the background. There has been discussion on the web re: the change/improvement in machining techniques & metallurgy that apparently shortens that time window. If true, then the required 20 minute cam burnishing period likely eats up a larger percentage than in the past? (controlled break-in on a dyno would be the exception). The average owner breaking-in the cam in his garage would likely be hard pressed to get the necessary power-on/deceleration loading drive accomplished before the cylinder honing is polished down, and the window for proper seating has passed? Perhaps some compromise is indicated? A motor with rings that never seat would still need to be pulled and disassembled. Aside from the fact that cams & lifters are more expensive than rings, what thoughts do you have on the subject? Or, do YOU still do everything the same as in the "old days"?
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By Ted - 15 Years Ago
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Lengthy so bear with me. The camshaft breakin rules haven’t changed much in 40+ years for flat tappet camshafts. Neither has the fact that if a camshaft is going to go bad, it’s going to start do so almost as soon as the engine fires up. Like John mentions, if something is visibly or audibly going awry before whatever allotted time period you’re using is up, then shut the engine down and check it out. I have very few issues with camshafts and attribute that to just paying attention to the little details when putting the engines together. It doesn’t mean I still don’t cringe everytime an engine is cranked up for the first time and has to be run the prerequisite amount of time to insure that another camshaft has passed the test. I save the diesel oil for diesel engines and use only quality gasoline oils in gasoline engines. Zero issues but I also adhere to the specifications in the API bulletin as far as which oils are best suited for a particular build. I’ve a list here with over two dozen items that can cause premature camshaft and lifter wear. If any one of these items is missed or not addressed, then it doesn’t matter if the rest of the items were covered as it’s an all or nothing deal. All items must be covered or the premature camshaft wear problems come back to the forefront. A plus side to running the engine at a high idle speed and for a predetermined amount of time is that the engine is allowed to thoroughly warm up and then heat soak once it’s shut off. If the engine is allowed to completely cool before being restarted, then valve spring life is lengthened significantly. If the engine is revved without this cool down time, valve spring life is shortened. Cylinder wall finish is extremely important for initial seating purposes. If the machine shop doesn’t ask what kind of rings you’re running, then there’s always the chance that the ring finish being put on the bores may not be right for the rings you’re running. It doesn’t get any simpler than this as rings will start seating as soon as the engine is cranked when the correct finish is being applied in regards to the rings being used. It’s not until the rings are heat loaded that final seating can take place. Some ring finishes require torque plate honing while others don’t find that as necessary. I’ll add at this point that the correct oil should also be used during assembly and during breakin to promote ring sealing. Because of the critical nature of ring seating in a new engine, I always recommend against the use of synthetic oil until the engine is thoroughly broken in. Just my opinion but is based on several engines I’ve seen broken in with synthetic oil that did not fare well.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 15 Years Ago
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Heat soak & cool down procedure to prolong valve spring life is news to me. Good to know.
Though the Rotella CI-4 (plus added ZDDT) once recommended for cam break-in (high detergent/non slippery-high traction) is no longer generally available, since I still have a supply, I thought finalizing the ring seating would be a good use for it after the cam burnishing was completed. You could then change back to an ultra-high ZDDP break-in oil to finish the process, and restore an adequate protective layer? Couldn't hurt to flush out even more metal shavings, and it might be just the thing to de-glaze/seal in the short time alloted?
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By DANIEL TINDER - 15 Years Ago
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Ted (1/10/2010) I also adhere to the specifications in the API bulletin as far as which oils are best suited for a particular build.
Ted,
Where can that bulletin be obtained? Sounds quite informative.
Also, curious now re: details the heat-soak/cool-down valve spring life extending theory? Since much of the traditional "heat cycling" of new engine parts is reportedly based on myth (confused with "heat treating", something supposed to have been already done by the manufacturer), it's likely quite important to sort out/identify those that are truly valid (based on facts/experience), so they will be taken seriously.
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By Ted - 15 Years Ago
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DANIEL TINDER (1/11/2010)
Ted (1/10/2010) I also adhere to the specifications in the API bulletin as far as which oils are best suited for a particular build. Ted, Where can that bulletin be obtained? Sounds quite informative. Here’s the draft for the new (proposed) standard. You’ll want to look for the phosphorus if wanting to know what’s happening to the zinc. Phosphorus is the part that’s being mandated for reduction, not the zinc. But for zinc to do it’s job, phosphorus points the way as it is the particular component that is attracted to high heat where metal to metal contact is taking place. Zinc simply follows the phosphorus and plants itself between the metal parts that are causing the high heat as the anti-wear part of the duo. http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/upload/ILSAC_GF_5_draft_Nov_19_09.pdf Doing a search for American Petroleum Institute standards will probably find you the current standard.
DANIEL TINDER (1/11/2010) Also, curious now re: details the heat-soak/cool-down valve spring life extending theory? Since much of the traditional "heat cycling" of new engine parts is reportedly based on myth (confused with "heat treating", something supposed to have been already done by the manufacturer), it's likely quite important to sort out/identify those that are truly valid (based on facts/experience), so they will be taken seriously.That information came from the various spring manufacturers. This became more prominent with the advent and subsequent popularity of extreme lift camshafts but is suitably applied to all valve springs.
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By Philo - 15 Years Ago
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Here is a link to a motor oil comparison document that has just about every brand, type and weight listed:
http://motoroilbible.com/data-comparisons-combined.pdf
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