By michael t. - 16 Years Ago
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Has anyone put mustang II front end in a 57 passenger car ? If so is the swap worth the time and money?If you are running a y block do you have to use a rear sump pan?I have seen the rack&pinion kits but,I'm not sure if I like the rack being behind the cross member because the steering column angle and clutch linkage clearance.Any help would be appreciated. thanks michael t.
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By rmk57 - 16 Years Ago
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I remember there was a thread on this topic on 57fordsforever.com . I think the companies name is Wildhog. You may want to check out their website for more info.
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By kidcourier - 16 Years Ago
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Hey Michael, As to your questions on rack/pinion steering--I have a '57 Courier running a Y-block and 4-speed with Wildhogs rack kit! This quality kit and almost a bolt in except for connecting the steering columnand powersteering hoses if you go with a power rack! Now for your questions(my opinion only)--(A)worth time and money=No--(B)have to run rearsump oilpan=No,I'm running a front sump oilpan--(C)clearance on steering/clutch linkage=close fit but with borgenson swivel joints and steering shaft provided with his kit you can do it!--- (D) Would I do it again=NO- I,ve found no benefits in going to rack/pinion steering,I've lost a little in turning radius although it's a little easier to paralel park due to the power rack insted of the standard steering.(E)What would I do different= As suggested,go to '57 Fords Forever and check out the forum on Steering(alot of info on this topic)--there's a member who went with a new 567 powering steering box that's suppose to be a bolt in for the stock '57 steering box(similar to the scrub 605 powersteering box) it's from ABS Power Brake,Inc. in Orange,Calif.(abspowerbrake.com). I would rebuild the stock '57 front end and use this powersteering box with either a Eaton or Saginaw pump/resivore(if your looking for a powersteering system),Either way your going to have to modify your steering column or replace it (Flaming River,Ididit,Etc.--more $)If you have any more questions ask away! Anybody else who's running these systems give us your pros /cons on after install handling! KID
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By Doug T - 16 Years Ago
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michael t. (12/31/2009) Has anyone put mustang II front end in a 57 passenger car ? If so is the swap worth the time and money?If you are running a y block do you have to use a rear sump pan?I have seen the rack&pinion kits but,I'm not sure if I like the rack being behind the cross member because the steering column angle and clutch linkage clearance.Any help would be appreciated. thanks michael t.Why would you want to do this? All Ford ball joint 4 link front ends up through the '90s were essentially the same geometry. they were pretty much state of the art and compare well with the M II geometry. With all new wear parts and maybe somewhat higher rate springs and certainly a higher rate anti roll bar they will provide very good handling. You can even get graphite bushings for serious control of front end geometry. Of course most people will agree that disc brakes on the front are desirable but there are ways to do that without going to M II. The same obtains with rack and pinion steering. You have a good steering system that already fits the car. Bring it up to snuff and you will have everything you can use. Please don't misunderstand, the M II route with R & P steering is good stuff especially with aftermarket add ons. But it became popular for upgrading solid axle cars from the 30's and applications like that. The current Salt Flat Comet is a good example, the engine bay needed more space and the M II give them that. But for most street cars that came with Y blocks the payback isn't there over a good overhall of what came with it, IMHO.
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By speedpro56 - 16 Years Ago
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I have the original steering in my 57 custom business sedan 2dr and it works perfectly. I have more fun driving my old cars than any of my new ones and they actually steer as good or better than the new ones . So I have to agree with doug T I just can't find any benefits too change for the cost involved. For power steering I would go for a 57 unit that already fits.
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By Flying Jester - 16 Years Ago
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As for why you'd replace a perfectly goo dsystem, maybe the car was a 6 and now it's got the heavier 8, maybe it's all rusted and you wanna do it yourself. if you're into doing it yourself, MII is the way to go. It's going in my '63 Fairlane...which the Y-Block is also going in...someday...
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By speedpro56 - 16 Years Ago
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I think what the Kid said makes a lot of sense because some of the other guys on this site have expressed the same problems when changing to a different system than what the car with originaly. 56 & 57 fords really did have pretty good steering systems but if someone wants to try something different that's ok with me, if they want an opinion I'll give mine and it's only an opinion, and can hope it helps them in determining the direction they want to go.
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By LON - 16 Years Ago
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I'm with Doug T & Speedpro ,replace everything that is worn ,add disc brakes, Power booster, a big sway bar and a set of lowered springs . Hard to beat in my opinion ??.But ,if that's want you really want to do ( Install Mustang 11 front end ),don't let me stop you . After all ,it's your money . Lon
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By aussiebill - 16 Years Ago
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Lon, Ditto!! bit off topic but how did you go with santa ( lynne) this year? regards bill.
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By Bobwanna - 16 Years Ago
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Michael -I like to keep my cars close to stock so that that it easy to go back to original. These Fords had a very good front end suspension if up to spec. If you are trying to correct for worn part this is not the direction to go IMHO. If your are racing or have other high performance requirements that is different. I would just bring things up to spec by replacing the worn parts. This might be cheaper in the long run, and don't forger resale value of your car. For safety you might want to convert to a dual brake MC - Bob
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By MoonShadow - 15 Years Ago
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When I redid my 56 Victoria I thought about Mustang II and everything else! Of course money was a limiting factor. I settled on a rebuild with new ball joints, rubbers etc. While at it I installed the lower A-arm spacers to lower it. I've driven the car this way for years now. I love the way it looks and rides! Takes highway corners hugging the pavement! I've seen none of the "bump steer" mentioned elsewhere and no change in alignment. After lowering the front and rear I had the alignment checked and it was completely in spec! That was a surprise. If you think about the early Ford lower A-arms were very long. An item not looked over on the race tracks and on many latter sports cars. I have a Lincoln disc brake set up but haven't made a solid call on using it. The car stops fine as is, all the brakes were redone and a double master cylinder added for safety. Not to mention the stock disc assembly is heavier than a drum setup. So my 2 cents! A rebuilt 50's Ford front end, completely in spec, lowered or not, works great! Of course to all owners, it's your car, do it your way! Chuck in NH
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By michael t. - 15 Years Ago
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The only reason I was thinking of changing to a Mustang II front end is because I had one given to me for free and my car has been wrecked and both of my lower control arms are bent. As well as my tie rods. I would like to convert to power steering but all factory slave cylinder units that I have found are around $1500. I have Granada spindles and 11 in. roters but, I have never installed them.I have found a power steering conversion that uses a saginaw 700 gearbox and adapter plate to fit to the factory ford location.I also found a saginaw power steering pump bracket for a y block.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago
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Just remember the MII stuff was designed for a Pinto, probably about a ton less weight than a '56.
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By Bobwanna - 15 Years Ago
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MoonShadow I like to keep things close to stock unless I really know more that the Engineers at Ford, however I don't. How did you lower your stock front and keep the geometry as designed by Ford. At the moment I am reviving my 55 T-Bird. Previous owner did a front end lowering job by .... heating the coil springs ... Needles to stay one broke on me I replaced it with a new replacement part. It rode just fine but I would like to lower it a modest 1 inch. Thanks, Bob
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By Rono - 15 Years Ago
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In my 56 Customline, I did keep the stock suspension (except for the 2&1/2" dropped Granada Spindles), but made the BIG mistake of using Rick Wurth's (Wurthit Designs) Power R&P set-up. This was supposed to be a straight-up "bolt-in" kit that was anything but. I had a huge problem in fabricating a bracket to hold the hyme joint around the clutch linkage. When I finally got all the brackets to fit without the steering binding and went to lower the motor in, the oil pump rested on top of the power rack!. It was just a nightmare. I had to shim the motor and tranny up with aluminum plates and shim the rack down so the oil pump wouldn't hit the rubber dust covers on the rack. Mr. Wurth got an earfull from me and I don't think he is selling these any longer.
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By MoonShadow - 15 Years Ago
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I used the 1" blocks that space the coil spring plate lower in the A-frame. They are really simple, I installed mine with the front suspension assembled. Used a jack to support the lower A-Frame (car was on stands of course). Drilled out the rivets holding the spring plate on. Inserted longer bolts (in kit) and let the jack down a bit. By using the longer bolts I was able to gain enough space for the blocks. I loosened on end bolt, slipped the bar in, reinserted the bolt. Did the same for the other end and then the other side. I'm not sure why there was no effect on the alignment. Maybe on of the site Guru's could comment on that. I theorized that lowering the spring bottom mount, while allowing a lower stance did not alter any of the steering geometry? But I've been wrong before. Anyway I'm sure happy with the setup and unlike heating or cutting springs I can remove the blocks and bolt everything back together if I want. Chuck in NH
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By Doug T - 15 Years Ago
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I'm not sure why there was no effect on the alignment. Maybe on of the site Guru's could comment on that. I theorized that lowering the spring bottom mount, while allowing a lower stance did not alter any of the steering geometry? But I've been wrong before. Anyway I'm sure happy with the setup and unlike heating or cutting springs I can remove the blocks and bolt everything back together if I want. Chuck in NH[/quote]Hi Chuck, I am not quite Guru Status but the reason nothing changed when you dropped the spring pockets is that you didn't change the length of the suspension arms or their mounting position. You should see a slight camber change as the arms are now further "up" in relation to the chassis at normal ride height. I have never seen it in the '57 manual but the '56 manual has a table of the part #'s and specs for 8 springs which seem to be what was used in '56 (see page 359). This includes the height at normal load which for all springs was set at 9.59", there are 3 wire dia's used and slightly different free heights ranging from 14.09 to 15.95. Also different but not identified is the number of coils. This is table is a good point of departure to specify new springs from a spring vendor. To lower the car one specifies a lower free height, to get about 1" of drop you need something like .75" reduction in normal load height. I assume the T bird spring rate was the lowest at 290 lb/" of deflection. Back when this stuff was much more available I took two springs from a '56 2 door 6 cyl which had probably one of the springs that had a rate of 360 Lb/". I shortened those springs by a calculated amount to reduce the ride height about 1 1/2" which also has the effect of raising the spring rate to something like 420 lb/". They are in my Bird right now. The ride is fine but I do believe the rate could be somewhat higher, maybe 500 lb/" which would reduce body lean in hard cornering. Today there is the spring vendor Eaton that will custom make springs and I would get a set from them rather than try to find the old stuff and modify it.
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By PF Arcand - 15 Years Ago
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The 57 front ends were strong & well designed. In good condition they work well. So strong in fact that when I had all the original bushings replaced in mine,(in 2008) we found the upper ball joints were original. Yes the standard steering is a bit heavy & slow but it works well. Converting to a Mustang II setup seems like an odd move in a 57. And if an original II setup, as John H noted, it's to light for a 57... And a side note on front end conversions, a friend has a 48 Merc with a Mustang front end in it. The welding was done improperly by an unqualified person & or with incorrect welding material, & the front end collapsed one day! Fortunately at very low speed.. one day after he had been driving the car at 60 mph over a bridge!!
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By Bobwanna - 15 Years Ago
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I used the 1" blocks that space the coil spring plate lower in the A-frame. They are really simple, I installed mine with the front suspension assembled. Used a jack to support the lower A-Frame (car was on stands of course). Drilled out the rivets holding the spring plate on. Inserted longer bolts (in kit) and let the jack down a bit. By using the longer bolts I was able to gain enough space for the blocks. I loosened on end bolt, slipped the bar in, reinserted the bolt. Did the same for the other end and then the other side. Chuck Good explanation, this is simple. When I get the bird going again I think this is my best option. I will be happy with a 1" drop. -Bob
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By MoonShadow - 15 Years Ago
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Actually my car was lowered about 2" with this method. Chuck in NH
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By michael t. - 15 Years Ago
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a couple of people have said something about 1" control arm spacers used to lower a 56 .will those work on 57 and if so who sells them?also who sells graphite bushings?
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago
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Michael: Only works on '54-'56 passenger and '55-'57 T-Bird. '57 passenger a arms are one piece.
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