Losing oil to the rockers.

Losing oil to the rockers.

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By CShroom - 15 Years Ago

I am truly stumped here.

Here are the symptoms I have,

When I start up cold, both rockers are oiling, drivers side is better than the passenger.

As it begins to warm up, the passenger side will slow and then eventually quit.

After a few more minutes, the driver's side will do the same.

I have checked for blockage in the galleys up to the rockers. I have cleaned out what I can get into on the top side. The pan has been dropped and the pick up cleaned. Everything put back together and checked.

Any one have any thoughts on possible causes? It has been suggested that I have a bad oil pump, which I guess is possible. I have also heard that bad cam bearings can do this also. But which is more likely with these symptoms? I am not entirely mechanically inept, but this has me chasing my tail.

By crenwelge - 15 Years Ago

How much oil pressure do you have once the engine warms up? Do you have a gauge or a light?

By Ted - 15 Years Ago

I’m with Kenneth as it sounds like very low oil pressure on the engine which could be as simple as the oil pump or as complicated in being bearing and journal wear. I’ll suggest putting a pressure gauge that’s known to be accurate and taking readings both cold and hot. A heavier weight oil may also help but is only going to be a short term fix until the root problem is remedied.

By CShroom - 15 Years Ago

I had a bsaic sunpro guage in the truck for a bit, but the line recently broke. But before the plastic line broke, it was showing about 30lbs hot. I have a couple of other guages that I will try and fit into the port to see what they say tomorrow.

But what is considered an acceptable range?

By Ted - 15 Years Ago

15-20 psi hot and idling should be the low side of sufficient. If you go to a fast idle for a minute or so, does the oil flow to the heads resume?

By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago

You might consider replacing that oil line with the copper line.I dont know why they even supply plastic with those gauge kits except maybe its cheap.I would agree that it sounds like low oil pressure.

By CShroom - 15 Years Ago

Ted (1/10/2010)

15-20 psi hot and idling should be the low side of sufficient. If you go to a fast idle for a minute or so, does the oil flow to the heads resume?

Unfortunately, no. Once they quit, it is done. I would guess about 5-10 minutes to lose all pressure to the passenger side, and after that the flow gets slower and slower on the driver side. Maybe another 5 minutes or so for the flow to become negligible to consider good.

The pressure gauge was already on the truck when inherited it. I didn't have any spare line, so I just blocked it off using a shallow plug. But I have two other direct fitting PSI gauges I can use to verify the pressure.

By CShroom - 15 Years Ago

OK, I just finished testing again.

I connected to a port towards the front of the drivers side of the block. Tell me if I picked a bad area to connect.

But initial start up, I was showing about 40PSI, after about 5 minutes it dropped down to 30PSI. Everything is still oiling at this point.

But the pressure keeps going down. At 20PSI, I lose the passenger side rockers, then it drops to 10PSI and I lose the drivers side also.

If I rev up, I get back to 30PSI, but no change up top.

Now I have heard of cars oiling well with 10-20, but I am not sure how a Yblock will do this low. Are these signs of a bad oil pump? Or could it be something else?

Sadly enough, I am stuck only with a 1962 Chilton's auto repair manual that does not get very specific with the Y, so I have to ask what may be a lot of dumb questions.

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

Hi, oil pressure situations are fairly basic and dont differ alot between models, for my 2 cents worth, i would be guessing a pretty worn engine and maybe a combination of worn main and cam bearings, releasing the pressure once warmed up and oil thins out more, and just cant get to rockers then? just a guess of symptons. Glad to hear of fix later on. regards bill.

By CShroom - 15 Years Ago

I am thinking that it is just a tired motor myself. I can't fathom how an oil pump would start with such nice numbers and drop so quickly, unless there is high wear elsewhere. And honestly, I don't really know the history of the truck. I just know what the last owner did with it. And that was drive the wheels off of it.

I am going to be doing a compression test here today just to give myself a better idea on the condition of the motor in general. I think it is safe to assume that if the motor is showing low compression numbers or numbers with a lot of variance, I may be looking at having to go through the whole thing.

If that is the case, I am going to have to do some serious thinking. Money is limited and this is more or less my main driver. The though of having to pull the motor for a rebuild may color my final decision.

By MoonShadow - 15 Years Ago

I had a oil pressure problem last summer. Pressure started at 60lbs but after driving a while dropped a lot to about 15lb. As summer went on it got worse until I saw some 0lbs at idle. Turned out to be a main bearing gone bad. As clearance opened up with heat the oil just sprayed out of this one bearing. Cost me a lot of parts! Cam, lifters, pistons, rings, bearings etc! You can check for leaks by pulling the pan and putting an air adapter into the oil pressure gauge hole on the block. Apply air and listen for it. It felt like a high speed fan was running around my main cap! Not good!

Chuck in NH

By Old Y Block - 15 Years Ago

Try flushing the oil system with 1 quart kerosene added to the oil, IDLE only @ 5 minutes. Blow galleys out with air, especiall the ones that go from the cam to the heads. Drain and change oil. I have done this and it will clean the oil system.Or it could be just a pressure relief valve stuck in the pump. Try cleaning the pump first.

By CShroom - 15 Years Ago

Old Y Block,

I have cleaned and desludged the innards recently. did the trans fluid before an oil change with a Marvel Mystery oil chaser. Hell part of me wonders if I did more damage than good by cleaning it out.

However, I will be dismantling the oil pump tomorrow and checking for any sludge internally, just to be safe. My starter is dragging real bad. I got the truck on a charger right now. I am hoping that the solenoid hasn't decided to give up on me. But I am trying to avoid throwing parts at it, until I have a better idea on what is wrong with it.

By crenwelge - 15 Years Ago

You will probably get lots of different opinions, but I do not like to flush old engines. As long as the crud clings to something, it does no harm. If you break it loose, it can cause problems. I have been using Marvel Mystery oil for over 50 years, but we referred to it as an upper cylinder lubricant or top oil, which meant it was meant for the upper part of the engine... namely valves and rings. ATF will also work as an UCL, but it will not lubricate an engine.

By Old Y Block - 15 Years Ago

Drown me in beer, I should have explained more on "flushing the motor". I would not recommend flushing, if the motor held even low oil pressure and the rockers were getting some oil. If the motor is that worn that it will not oil the rockers after it warms up, the old mill would need a overhaul anyway, before it completely let go. You would not have a lot too lose. On the oil pump once in awhile the plunger will stick open if it's dirty or bent or broken spring or any other reason. I didn't mean to mis-lead you, but I should have asked you more facts. There are some folks that still believe non-detergent oil is the best for old motors, I don't. The big thing is you are trying to keep the old ride running and I appreciate that. I've kept my old 55 going for over 37 years. They are one of the most forgiving motors ever made. Hell some folks didn't change the oil ever, just added to. I've seen rocker boxes with sludge half way up the springs and the pan with sludge up to the pick-up screen and still running and holding 4 to 8 lbs. presure. Hell at my age drowning in beer wouldn't be all that bad! Good luck with the old ride. All will work out in the end.

By HT32BSX115 - 15 Years Ago

I have cleaned and desludged the innards recently. did the trans fluid before an oil change with a Marvel Mystery oil chaser. Hell part of me wonders if I did more damage than good by cleaning it out.

Howdy,

If you have a severely "sludged" engine, when doing the above, you run the risk of breaking loose a piece of "sludge". That's what could be blocking the oil to the rockers, cam, or even a rod or main bearing. (in the latter cases, you'll know when it spins/seizes a bearing and puts a rod thru the crankcase!! w00t

)

It's not pretty when the bearing seizes to the crankshaft either....

spun rod bearing:

If your engine is so "sludged" that oil passages are clogged, it needs to come apart and and be cleaned completely.

Cheers,

Rick

By CShroom - 15 Years Ago

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I work from home, so when things are dead and I need to get away from my test I fiddle on the truck or motorcycle.

But I unfortunately got quite a sign today. I definitely have either a bad starter or solenoid. However with the plugs pulled I could get a decent crank off the motor.

I have an older rubber booted compression tester which I had tried out on my Goldwing yesterday for giggles. 125 t0 145 per cylinder.

It was drizzling today so I just got out to try the truck.

the best I got was 75 on Cylinder 6 and Cylinder 2 was about 20...

I think this poor old Y is just tired. So even if I traced the exact source of my oil loss, I really will only band-aid what in essence is a motor in dire need of a rebuild.

Anyone know what the average rebuild cost is for a 292 in California? I know that there are a lot of variables, especially if there is any excessively worn parts, but a general ball park figure if I have a rebuildable core?

By Ol'ford nut - 15 Years Ago

CShroom (1/12/2010)

If money is limited don't even think about rebuilding this old tired engine. If it is as bad as it sounds you are talking new pistons, boring block, all new bearings, new cam and lifters and everything else. Would hit close to $2500 easy or more.

You better start looking for another running engine that you can check out before buying.

By bird55 - 15 Years Ago

What model of car is this engine in? And what is the cars condition?

By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago

If the starter is failing, you probably didn't get a good compression test. But all the symptoms point to a very tired engine.

By CShroom - 15 Years Ago

Hoosier Hurricane, you are right, I don't think it was as good as it could have been, but I think I got it spinning fast enough to give me an idea. Or at least that is the hope.

bird55, This is a 292 2bbl in a 59 F100. And it has spent most of its life doing what trucks are supposed to do. I have been slowly straightening and repairing a lot of buggered up stuff and keeping it original is not my primary concern.

Ol' Ford Nut, I know there is someone out selling a 292 from a 60's F100 that is going at a decent price. I may take a look at it to see if I want to try and replace a Y for a Y.

I honestly knew the motor was on the tired side of things, just didn't realise how tired. Hell I can kick it off instantly without a hint of any smoking until it was opened up, so I was really keeping my fingers crossed that this oiling issue was blockage and not what it is looking like it is.

By bird55 - 15 Years Ago

ok, I just had to ask, sounds like the vehicle is worth saving.

Just my thoughts-If it is your main source of transportation, I think the idea of finding another yblock in running order might be a good solution. You will have I think the least down time and probable cost.

Your current engine can be fixed, with the right amount of time and money - just maybe not the right time for that, so I wouldn't ditch it, just set it aside and do it right as time and money allow, then you'll have a brand new one to drop in.