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By yehaabill - 15 Years Ago
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Y-guys An old friend of mine got sick all of a sudden, and had to be rushed to the E.R.! Earlier in the day he had been doing a lot of welding(he's a fabricator) and had been using brake cleaner/carb cleaner/contact cleaner/ to clean the metal before and during the welding process. We think the combination of heat and those chemicals he inhaled caused his sickness. It didn't happen at work, but several hours later. He's now in a coma and things don't look good..... Charlie/Tim please post this on any other sites(Hamb/Ford Muscle etc.) I don't go to those sites very often but I think this is important and it needs to get "out there". We're not 100% this is the cause, but we think it is..... Bill A friend googled these chemicals and and found some variations were in some of the W.W. II "gases" used in the war....
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago
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Bill: Sorry to hear about your friend. Hope he pulls through. While it is very possible one of the cleaners, or a combination of them, caused his illness, I wonder what it was he was trying to clean off the metal. Some type of coating? I know that galvanized metal gives of a noxious gas when you torch cut it or weld it. Was that what he was welding? Was it some type of exotic alloy? Any possibilities that you can furnish the medical people could help them treat him correctly and quickly. And thanks for the warning.
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By Y block Billy - 15 Years Ago
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Sorry to hear Bill, and as Hoosier says, thanks for the warning. We are always in a rush and never give it second thought to just take the quick route, if I hadn't known I may of oneday tried the same thing. When I was a little boy there was a guy on our street who rode around in a wheel chair and was mentally not here, Just about in a coma. I was informed he drank something from under the cubboard when he was a little boy that made him that way for life.
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By Y block Billy - 15 Years Ago
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I will print this and post it in my shop, Give copies for friends shops, others should do the same. Keep us posted on the outcome.
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By kidcourier - 15 Years Ago
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Guys, Just watched "Gearz" on TV on the Speed Channel and they talked about this very subject! About using brake cleaner(example:Brake-Kleen) as a cleaner before welding --stating that a chemical agent in most is Tetrachloroethylene which mixed with argon gas(mig or tig welding) causes "Phosgene Gas Poisoning"--which there's no antidote for! Even a small amount inhaled can cause long term effects such as chronic bronchitis or emphysema--also may cause damage to kidneys,liver,pancreas damage,etc. If you would like more info go to (www.StaceyDavid.com) and click at bottom,should go to home page--at left side click on program--02-12-10 ="Welding Safety" which explains this topic. This is something everyone that does welding should read--something we all do in this hobby when using various chemicals,cleaners, paint,etc.,and who'd a thought that a simple combination could cause deadly consiquences? I hope your friend was lucky in the out come and no future problems will occur for him!Wish him well!!! KID
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By Daniel Jessup - 15 Years Ago
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Bill, We'll be praying for your friend to pull through. If he's been fabricating for any length of time, then he is probably very aware of his surroundings and has maybe even used these chemicals before to clean his weld. Ventilation can sometimes be an issue, but that usually has immediate results. Different brands of those types of cleaning chemicals will have variations of the same chemicals, and some will have a chemical or two that others do not. Maybe he switched brands. That's why those things like MSDS paperwork can be so valuable to the doctors like Hoosier said. A sound warning for all of us.
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By crenwelge - 15 Years Ago
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My workman's comp made me buy a supplied air helmet 6 or 8 years ago when they saw one of my guys welding aluminum that had undercoating on the back side of it. They are expensive, but I now think it was money well spent.
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By Y block Billy - 15 Years Ago
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I have been welding metal with undercoating for years, I don't think I have come across undercoated aluminum though.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago
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I am a former Ford dealer shop foreman. Never, ever, ever use brake clean around heat or flames. It creates a terrible poison gas. There have been innumerable discussions about this on automotive forums. Many years ago I found an apprentice spraying brake clean into carbs and running the engine to "clean" them out in the shop. He was too lazy to go to the back parts counter and get some cans of carb cleaner. It can cause devastating nerve and organ damage. Hopefully your friend will recover quickly.
Mark
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By 62galxe - 15 Years Ago
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heres a article on it. chemical plants that have phosgene in the plant require phosgene detection badges and supplied air respirators to work around it. its some bad stuff. http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
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By mctim64 - 15 Years Ago
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This has been discussed on the HAMB before. Also phosgene is what comes from burning R-12 we were told about guys getting sick or killed from smoking in a car with an AC leak when I was in airconditioning class at tech school.
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By yehaabill - 15 Years Ago
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Y-Guys My friend passed away today...They're going to do an autopsy to give everyone closure. I'll post the results to keep everyone informed. He was not a close friend, but a friend never the less. Bill
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By rgrove - 15 Years Ago
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yehaabill (3/1/2010)
Y-Guys My friend passed away today...They're going to do an autopsy to give everyone closure. I'll post the results to keep everyone informed. He was not a close friend, but a friend never the less. Bill I am terribly sorry to hear this. My prayers are with both you and his family.
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By Daniel Jessup - 15 Years Ago
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Bill, we send our condolences. Do keep us informed about the situation and what the doctors' find concerning the cause. Though we all need to be reminded about chemical safety, none of us would ever think that it would take this drastic and this horrible of an event to keep us conscious about what these products are capable of if we are not careful. I, for one, am truly sorry.
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By mctim64 - 15 Years Ago
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Sorry to hear that Bill, our prayers to his family.
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By Bob's 55 - 15 Years Ago
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Bill, Sorry to hear that your friend passed. Very unfortunate.
Maybe his passing and you bringing this to the attention of all of us that use chemicals and weld will save others.
I believe someone mentioned the use of the MSDS. Please always check the MSDS of the chemicals you use, most are available online.
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By jonnireb - 15 Years Ago
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Bill, Terribly sorry to hear of your friend's death However, we all owe you a debt of gratitude for the heads up regarding the use of cleaning chemicals when welding. I will post your warning in my shop , as well.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago
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Bill,
Very sorry to read the sad news. My condolences to you and his family.
Mark
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By PF Arcand - 15 Years Ago
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Another metal coating that is very toxic when heated is Cadmium plating. It's that gold colored coating found on bolts etc.
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By Nathan Soukup - 15 Years Ago
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I am a welder,and I have never used brake cleaner to prep for welding,however I have had a can of carb cleaner expode after coming in contact with sparks from welding.Keep any arosole cans away from the welding area at all times.Welding galvanized is also an easy way to mess up a good day.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 15 Years Ago
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I notice the Permatex RTV prep instructions describe their brake cleaner as a "residue-free solvent". If no residue, then how can chemical reaction occur? Other brands NOT residue-free, maybe?
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By Y block Billy - 15 Years Ago
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Wow, So sorry to hear Bill. My heartfelt condolences are with you. I have it posted in my shop and had everyone who came in today read it. sincere thanks for the heads up. Keep us posted on the autopsy outcome. Regards, Bill
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By Doug T - 15 Years Ago
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Here is a link to the CDC site specifically about phosgene. http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp Note that it can be generated by heating chlorinated hydrocarbons which defines brake cleaner and refrigerants among many other things. Also Polycarbonate Plastic (Lexan as in tail lights among many other parts) is reacted from phosgene and I would suspect that burning it will generate phosgene or something like it.
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