Weslake Y block

Weslake Y block

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By bird55 - 15 Years Ago

You might want to check into this thread I found on the HAMB. This guys thinks he might have one of the rare Weslake YBlocks in England!!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5110311#post5110311]

By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago

Wow. Wouldn't that be cool, to find a Weslake Y block in the back of someone's garage!

By lowrider - 15 Years Ago

I saw that today too. Can't wait for some pictures to be posted. I saw Tim stopped by there also.

By BFOOTER03 - 15 Years Ago

I sure hope it gets in the hand of someone who will appreciate it. Talk about the find of a life time. WOW

By lowrider - 15 Years Ago

Pictures of the Weslake Y-block are up over on the HAMB

By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago

Damn! It is a Weslake Y Block. What a find! At four liters I agree it was probably for the old Formula One racers. There was some speculation that is was a possible Indy 500 contender. It may have been an evolutionary step to the famed Gurney/Weslake Ford.

Mark

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

MarkMontereyBay (4/15/2010)

Good luck to the guy! ( you know i dont mean it) I think if green with envy is the saying , then how deep a shade of green are we all.??? It was Good to be able to see it upclose and some of its oddities. Just hope somehow its true racing history is revealed to help complete their racing history!!

By davis - 15 Years Ago

that is one RARE FIND!

wow.

super cool to be a find in a corner.

originally thought it was a 289.

wow.

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

What can one say not to realise it was a rare engine, anyhow now that most can see it close up, other than speedy bills, i have often mentioned that this head style was also made in cast iron and powered 292 trucks in Sth america. Outside this forum it was just considered a truck engine. We are thinking that after the race programme ended? the heads were cast in cast iron as they had the patterns etc and used commercially and later the windsor style also but just on convential block layout. the camshafts had different lobe layout for the port configuration and just faded into the midnight sun as the years progressed. Now this engine is exposed to the world, hopefully more information will come to light to show how great the mighty Y Block is. Wouldnt it be great for a race programme to turn up with y block car in the winners circle! Ah i can dream?

By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago

Okay...I think there is a sort of disconnect about the type of Weslake Y block. The motor shown on HAMB is obviously far different that the standard Y here in the US. Taller heads with side by side intake ports to allow the use of adapters for Weber carbs. The elusive or possibly imaginary holy grail of Y's is the Weslake SOHC motor. The motor shown is a pushrod configuration as I see it. Also, where does the distributor mount on the block shown on HAMB?

Mark

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

MarkMontereyBay (4/15/2010)

Mark, i think you,re mixing other weslake family of engines with our y block. The pictured one and speedy bills are the early y block weslake headed engine, then came windsor headed weslake y block engines, weslake made heads etc and developed many brands and types of engines including motor bikes etc. the dist mounts in usual spot in block, some have offset drive for intake/carb clearance. There is no connection to any other family of engines as i know it, unless you are referring to FE family of which i havent heard of Weslake FE cammer if thats what you are referring to???? but may exist! Some people use the term Y block with FE and MEL series because of the Y shape, but i believe the term YBLOCK belongs to our 272,292,312 engines. Best regards , bill

By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago

Bill,

Well, like I said a SOHC Weslake head Y Block may be a product of rumors, speculation or a confusion of stories. There was some discussion many years back of a "mystery" SOHC Y Block (292-312) that was in development for a possible Indy 500 entry. According to the possible mythology that program never was realized. Again, this is pure speculation and could be just "bench racing" jawboning. I have seen some references to the FE's/MELs as Y blocks by design as well as contemporary Ford modular V8's. Given the fertility of innovation during the mid 50's to late 60's with the likes of Weslake, Gurney, Jim Clark, Holman and Moody, and the groundbreaking motors that came of that, the idea of something like a SOHC Y Block doesn't sound to far fetched but, it may be just another myth.

Mark

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

Mark, you,re sure right about mythology on the rare stuff, keeps us looking? you,re close with the sohc y block. from my side i have been waiting for the weslake find to subside, although extremly excited about it and was going to bring up the sohc subject. if most of you remember the late Richard Gaston mentioning he worked at place where he actually cut the bevel drive gears for sohc y block engines that powered some model tank? i have searched for years and cant find what they were in and if any survived in tank somewhere, but would be good to add another page to our y block history! From our deep knowledge pool we all may find out about another myth. best regards bill.

By yalincoln - 15 Years Ago

hi, the sohc was an all aluminum v-8 used in sherman tanks. somewhere in the naborhood of 1000 cu.in. and 500 hp. if you go to the ford truck forums they have a pic. i believe they tryed to use the same setup on a y-block but it probably didn't like high rpm and was abandened.

By Cactus - 15 Years Ago

Henry made thousands of aluminum 60 degree V-8s with 1100 CID. I don't remember any single overhead cam, the only ones I have seen or read about were made in a dual overhead cam configuration. It was called the GAA or possibly GAF at times and was used in Sherman tanks in WW11.

By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago

Ah......some of the cobwebs in my brain are clearing. I remember the Gaston thread from somewhere. The photo of the gear drive posted as well. Here is a link about the tank engine. Pay particular attention to the Mustang photos at the bottom of the page. He gets the all-time Visual Intimidation Award at any race. Here is Santa Cruz, the Blastolene guys put together the Blastolene Special and Big Bertha using big stuff like this. Leno bought one of them. They drove it on the street here. Given the gear drive/timing cover for was made, what kind of RPM could a Yblock survive using today's engineering and technology? The FE SOHC's could do 8 or 9K I think.

http://mechdb.com/index.php/Ford_1100_ci_Sherman_tank_engine

Mark

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

Cactus (4/16/2010)

Guys, my thoughts were only on the yblock sohc with the timing cover i posted. It shows they existed at some time and was keen to revise the interest. thanks. regards bill.

By yalincoln - 15 Years Ago

hey your right they were dohc, oops my screw up, sorry. just got done looking at the pics. of the weslake engine and if you look at the pic. of the front of the engine you'll see that the pasenger side head stickes over the end of the block. i'd say someone stuck a set of 351 weslake heads on a y-block. it was nice to dream. now lets take a set of mummert aluminum heads and port the hell out of them. that i can see in the near future, can't waite.

By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago

SOHC

http://www.y-blocksforever.com/tech/html/sohc.html

By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago

Okay...there it is. What is the year of the Y Block Mag are the articles are from? I have subscribed for many years but missed or forgot about these articles. Life has it's distractions. In the end it is a conversion kit. A set of parts to apply to a conventional Y block and heads. First question that comes to mind is who owns the rights to the kit? Ford? Holman and Moody? Then if someone wanted to repro them or at least replicate them, could that be managed. The next question is will they fit Mummert's new aluminum heads? I also noticed the cam covers have an AMBLER logo on them. I recognize that name from the Museum of American Speed as a manufacturer of aftermarket cylinder heads for the Ford four banger. The photo in the Museum website is EO65.

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

charliemccraney (4/16/2010)

SOHC

http://www.y-blocksforever.com/tech/html/sohc.html

Charlie, thats the one i am talking about, so mysterious as to actual tank application? and hope someone somewhere can add some factual information to these unique parts. regards bill

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

MarkMontereyBay (4/16/2010)

Mark, pie in the sky! i doubt they were direct bolt on but who knows for sure, but you can bet they would be financially unviable to remake and sell, just ask john mummert whats involved in his new heads and logically the costs against market need would be too far lopsided $$$ . They sure are interesting though. Wish i had a set!!!!!

By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago

Bill, yes definitely a good way to throw away large sums of cash over a long period of time. But it is an interesting subject. Going through the web pages of the Museum of American Speed to see all that innovation actually coming to the market back then is a revelation. Today's economy and the small niche Y blocks occupy would never make such a thing sensible. But....Don Orosco, who makes selected runs of repro unobtainium for Flatheads seems to get it done. He is reproducing very exotic stuff for those who have the coins to pay. I don't fall into that category. I did send an email to Dennis Carpenter asking about the stuff and any plans or history he or others may have for them. I expect they will remain with him and stay a museum item.

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

Well back to weslakes, i have mentioned at times there were cast iron versions of these heads as well as the windsor style, rumours were 6 pair of aluminum heads, so far we can account for the Blue argentinian race car, speedy bills, 1 head i have, and now the recent find in england, thats 3 1/2 sets. The english engine was removed from a Sth american Can Am car and suspect was similar to recent blue one there. Thats as far as i,ve gotten. For those that are interested in this subject, these are the cast iron version of the aluminum heads. These belong to my good friends here who are true y block and sohc enthusiasts and originally got them and associated parts from retired US racer probably 15 yrs back. They are identical to the aluminum ones with same casting and identification markings. The mystery continues!

By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago

Great photos Bill. Thanks for clearing up some of the mythology also. Has it been determined that the Weslake recently found in England has cast iron or aluminum heads? On the SOHC subject, I received a email reply form Dennis Carpenter this afternoon to questions I asked about the parts he allegedly has. He wrote he has "no information on that subject" and suggested I ask John Mummert about it. Don't know what to make of that reply but that trail is cold for me now. It may relate to the hurdles and difficulties of reproducing or developing parts for the Y Block. The photos from Y Block Magazine show the logo on the cam covers. It is AMBLER. They made high performance cylinder heads for Ford four bangers. There is a photo of one those engines in the Museum of American Speed. The Gallery number is E065. The company was in Pennsylvania. Has anyone traced that history? Did AMBLER have a military contract for tank engines during the war? Did Holman and Moody copy those or did they use the stuff as it was built by AMBLER?

Mark

By Highvoltage - 15 Years Ago

Lucky bastard that guy on the HAMB!!!!!!!!!

As I wrote in another post, wecalled to Tandil foundry who build the heads and thy told us that they built 150 sets of heads.

You can add more heads:

-Pronello engineer(who designed that blue race car HUAYRA) has in your shop a set of heads maybe from the twin car HALCON (same as HUAYRA)

-A set currently on sale for U$S 2000

-another set of a broken engine with the remaining all 4 weber carbs. The owner tell this history:

"My dad bought the engine from Pirin Gradassi(a 5 times winner of argie stock car championship races) about 30 years ago when he studied on Cordoba(at center of Argentina). He put it on a F100 truck. The external oilpan got a failure and lost oil pressure. The engine was abbandoned for a while. When re build the engine, It was with stock Mercury conecting rods in place of the original Carrillo rods on a stock block(remember those engines were refitted to 3.0 litter instead of the original 292 CI) The engine was a BEAST. no one people wanted to take the right seat, they was scared. In conclusion, a rod was out to take some fresh air an broke the engine. So the block, rods, crank, cam was sent to a machine shop that went out of bussines and lost all the stuff less heads, carbs and other minor pieces."

Of ocurse, they don´t want to sell nothing.

here, the pics.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/ford1940deluxe2/tapaalumio.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/ford1940deluxe2/tapa2.jpg

-A machine shop owner who has a set of those heads.

-a hot rod built on mid 90´s that have another set.

Give me a bit of time, I will post pictures of each set.

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago

Highvoltage (5/23/2010)

Lucky bastard that guy on the HAMB!!!!!!!!!

As I wrote in another post, wecalled to Tandil foundry who build the heads and thy told us that they built 150 sets of heads.

You can add more heads:

-Pronello engineer(who designed that blue race car HUAYRA) has in your shop a set of heads maybe from the twin car HALCON (same as HUAYRA)

-A set currently on sale for U$S 2000

-another set of a broken engine with the remaining all 4 weber carbs. The owner tell this history:

Of ocurse, they don´t want to sell nothing.

here, the pics.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/ford1940deluxe2/tapaalumio.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/ford1940deluxe2/tapa2.jpg

-A machine shop owner who has a set of those heads.

-a hot rod built on mid 90´s that have another set.

Give me a bit of time, I will post pictures of each set.

Highvoltage, thanks for your great local knowledge and input into these heads, i will add these pics to my file on these engines! . With regards to the HUAYRA car, can you find out or know what actual race title they competed in and years? Thanks for shedding more info on these great engines. I would like to see pic of the actual endcaps that go through end of each head to support rocker shaft? regards bill.

By shadowman - 15 Years Ago

Mark, you might be confusing Dennis Carpenter with "Speedy" Bill Smith. Bill Smith has a pair of the heads in his museum at Speedway Motors. Jerry Christenson contacted Westlake and they claimed to have no knowledge of the Y-Block heads. Perhaps the heads were a Ford product.

John not Jeff Mummert. Site won't let me login under my name.

By MarkMontereyBay - 15 Years Ago

John,

This is the Y Block magazine article I was referencing about Carpenter's museum in Charlotte, NC:

http://www.y-blocksforever.com/tech/html/sohc.html

If you look closely at the photos the Ambler logo is on the cam covers. Speedy Bill's look like the Argentine heads with Webers but not an SOHC.

Mark