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By Rods - 15 Years Ago
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I have had the carb rebuilt and the hot rod shop thinks I may have a bad TC on my 57 Bird. When you put in reverse, it has a tendency to die unless you give it gas (good push of the pedal) Sometimes will do that when you start out moving forward from park as well. Never did this before I had the dist & carb rebuilt. Is there a way of testing a TC without tearing the tranny out to get to it? If you have a bad TC does it act up all the time and how would that "acting up" be?
Appreciate your input.
Rod
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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There is nothing in the torque convertor that would cause this problem.You would not get drive or reverse if the convertor was gone.I had similar problem with mine when i installed my rebuilt motor this spring.Took me awhile to sort out the carb idle adjustment,distributor,timing and fuel pump pressure.Acted just like yours does and at that time I was sure there was a problem with the TC.The carb is either not properly adjusted for idle speed OR they have done something wrong when they rebuilt the carb.What carb is on yours.The old style teapot or the 4150 Holley(new style)?
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By Dennis K. - 15 Years Ago
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In the operation of a torque converter the Reactor One Way Clutch (OWC) locks until the Turbine Speed reaches approximately 90% of engine speed. After that point the OWC begins to overrun or freewheel eliminating the torque multiplication and acting strictly as a 1:1 fluid coupling. If the Reactor OWC fails to lock up there will be no torque multiplication and acceleration will be sluggish. If the OWC is locked up all the time the converter will always act as a torque multiplier and will usually generate excessive heat. You should be able to perform a stall test to check the torque converter stall speed, along with a road test to check torque conveter function. A Ford Shop Manual will explain how to do this. Regards, Dennis
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By Rods - 15 Years Ago
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Several years back they switched form the original Holley to a weber (edelbrock). I agree with you that it is a timing/carb issue. I would have thought the hot rod shot I took it to would be able to figure that out. With the timing chain & dist being replaced and this carb being rebuilt. Sounds like culprit to me. Just not sure where to start to correct issue. Let me ask this question....
If the carb was too big for the motor, would it respond this way? How would an engine respond if the carb was too big?
Thanks
Rod
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By Rods - 15 Years Ago
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Dennis,
I have plenty of torque and very quick response if I get on the gas. In low it will spin the tires. so if I am understanding you, it probably isn't the TC in your opinion.. if I have power and no drag.
Rod
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By Ted - 15 Years Ago
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A weak ignition system or a battery that’s not up to snuff will also give some grief when trying to get an engine to idle with the automatic transmission ‘engaged’. I saw this recently where the installation of a Pertronix ignition conversion kit in the distributor on a ’56 Ford remedied issues that were present where the engine was originally wanting to die when putting the engine in gear.
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By Rods - 15 Years Ago
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I have replaced the battery recently and checked the voltage. Dist was rebuilt and vacuum is working correctly. Just got back from mechanic and he thinks the problem of the stalling and dying at stop is 2 fold. The old edlebrock we rebuilt does have lots of pits and corrosion in the body itself from sitting so long. Fuel tank was boiled, cleaned and resealed. Nothing is showing in the fuel bowl either. He adjusted the timing up to compensate more so it is at 13-15 degree TDC now. He thinks the dying might be due to the carb condition and the stalling when you put in gear is the ford-o-matic TC.
I am just frustrated to all end. It never did this until we rebuilt the dist, replaced timing chain and rebuilt carb. I have to be missing something simple. Everyone I have spoken to, not to mention the posts above say that the TC going bad is not likely. Besides, when you do it it gas, and get on the road it is a speed demon!.
Anything else I can check to see where the problem lies? Appreciate everyone's input.
R
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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I see you replaced the timing chain.Did your guy know how to set up the chain as far as the location of the timing marks on the gears.The marks face right when looking at front of motor.There should be I believe 15 pins between the marks.Most late models have the gear marks aligned vertically as in cam mark at bottom and crank gear mark at top even with each other.Other question is.When you rebuilt dist did the little braided ground wire get put back in and are the points grounded by that wire to the distributor body under the breaker plate? I think you can forget a problem with the TC.As I mentioned before I was having same problem stalling in gear.Was a combination of timing,carb and fuel pump pressure.
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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Rods (7/29/2010)
It never did this until we rebuilt the dist, replaced timing chain and rebuilt carb.
I can think of 3 places you need to check and double check.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago
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Mark: It is 12 pins between the timing marks, not 15.
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By mctim64 - 15 Years Ago
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oldcarmark (7/29/2010)
I see you replaced the timing chain.Did your guy know how to set up the chain as far as the location of the timing marks on the gears.The marks face right when looking at front of motor.There should be I believe 15 pins between the marks.Most late models have the gear marks aligned vertically as in cam mark at bottom and crank gear mark at top even with each other.12 pins as John said and if he had it off as much as one tooth it wouldn't be a "Speed Demon" it would be a dog if it ran at all. I think the chain was put on correct even if not degreed. 
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By Rods - 15 Years Ago
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I just got it back AGAIN, and still stalling when you put into reverse or 1st if you don't give it gas right away. I am thinking the old carb might just be at the end of it's life and I should just replace with a new edelbrock 500-525 and be done with it. Good size for the 312?
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By Rods - 15 Years Ago
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Dennis K. (7/25/2010)
In the operation of a torque converter the Reactor One Way Clutch (OWC) locks until the Turbine Speed reaches approximately 90% of engine speed. After that point the OWC begins to overrun or freewheel eliminating the torque multiplication and acting strictly as a 1:1 fluid coupling.
If the ReactorOWC fails to lock up there will be no torque multiplicationand acceleration will be sluggish.
If the OWC islocked up all the time the converter will always act as a torque multiplier and will usually generate excessive heat.
You should be able to perform a stall test tocheck the torque converter stall speed, along witha road test to check torque conveter function. A Ford Shop Manual will explain how to do this.
I have the 57 Ford Shop Manual and the only testing I saw was regards to the trans. fluid pressure. I did not see a TC function test. Is this the put in gear at 100rpm and checking pressure? Sorry, Dennis, just confused. Can you direct me to where I can find info on the stall test?
Thanks
R
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By GREENBIRD56 - 15 Years Ago
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Just like the cam sprocket "error" situation (or lack of one) - it seems like a far stretch to imagine an FOM torque converter stalling a T-bird engine due to a sudden internal tranny malfunction. Just my personal opinion and maybe worth less than two cents.... "Oldcar" Mark just went through this constant stalling drill with his outfit and it turned out to be a series of compounding problems - not just one or another. He found a PCV with way more air flow than desirable (vacuum leak) - a "rebuilt" distributor with a ton of extra endplay (variable idle timing) - issues with the carb float hangers (constant level changes) - I'm sure I'm missing some stuff.......but the point is, that idle engine torque is lost from a host of small issues and all a guy can do, is set about elimination - one by one. The "rebuild" of the carb and distributor - make both of them suspect.
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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Hello Steve! I just want to put a couple of more cents in.I really believe the problem here is carb related.The fact it doesnt stall if you get gas to it in time sounds like carb to me.Can you borrow a known good carb-Holley or otherwise to try?Before you go buying an $Edelbrock replacement get some opinions from people on this site.Lots of good choices available.
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By Rods - 15 Years Ago
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All of the carbs that the shop has are racing carbs. I told him to go ahead and order a Eddelbrock 500 or something about that size. He thinks the 600 is too much although some people have had no problems. I was going to go with Holley but he recommended against is unless you want all original. I prefer to have it drivable for now (like the aluminum radiator). Ordered yesterday. Should be in by the end of the week and installed next week. Hope that was the right choice... I have read +- for both sides of the discussion. I was told by several to stay away from the DEMON and their quality control have done down hill over the last year or so. I read several posts both for and against all of them.
I agree that the TC is not the issue. I am also having them install a secondary fuel filter just in case something is getting into the fuel but that is more of a precaution than anything.
I will keep you posted to the results!
Rod
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By Ted - 15 Years Ago
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Rods (8/2/2010)
I just got it back AGAIN, and still stalling when you put into reverse or 1st if you don't give it gas right away......You might consider tightening up the breaker point gap as a solution to the stalling in gear issue. Converting the distributor to electronic ignition is also another possible fix.
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By Rods - 15 Years Ago
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Ted,
Thanks for the advice, I will pass this onto the mechanic when I see him. I do not know if they checked that. We think these engines are simple but MAN there are a lot of things that have to work perfectly in order for everything to run right....
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By Dennis K. - 15 Years Ago
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I have a copy of the 57 Ford shop manual and I didn't think they had anything on an automatic transmission, and that its in a separate FordOMatic manual. Here are the proceedures from the 1962 Galaxie Shop Manual for stall and stator test. Regards, Dennis  
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By Rods - 15 Years Ago
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Dennis,
Thanks for the info. I think I can read this so I will see what I can do.
Appreciate it.
R
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