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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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As usual, not even 2 weeks left and a problem arises.
I heard a rattling noise briefly on the way home last night, kinda like a rocker loosened up. Today I find that #6 plug lost it's porcelain. I need to find out what's going on. Of all the problems I've had, every last one has been on the driver side bank.
The motor has been making no audible complaints about the tune. My 02 sensor says it's got enough fuel. I've never been able to get the plugs to be tan. I can get it so the fuel can be smelled from the exhaust and they'll still be white. I've heard that's just the way new gas is.
Everyone I talk to says detonation causes plugs to loose the porcelain. My exhaust is either too loud for me to hear it, or it's not loud detonation, or it's something else. I don't hear or feel anything like detonation when I drive it.
Some of the plugs do have colors- grays or reds. Here are pictures, starting with the "bad" bank. What do they mean?
#5
 
#6 or rather what's left.
 
#7
 
#8
 
#1
 
#2
 
#3
 
#4
 
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By lovefordgalaxie - 15 Years Ago
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Looks like the #6 plug had flashover problems, and #8 is running too rich, or maybe with a bad valve seal, ore even the plug is not working good, from pictures is a little difficult to say. Very odd just one plug showing that kind of deposits. Some of the others appear to be working too hot.
This kind of thing indicates, in my oppinion, that the plugs are not very consistent. I would change to another brand, a give a try.
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By pintoplumber - 15 Years Ago
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Charlie, are you running a hotter than normal plug?
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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Tulio,
I've had the same pattern with 2 brands of spark plugs. These are NGK WR5IX. The other is Autolite 45. The driver side bank is "dirtier" for some reason.
The last time this happened it was on cylinder 8, with the Autolite.
Dennis,
These cross to an Autolite 45 or 46 depending on where you get the info. If anything, they're no hotter than stock. I know Gary is running them with success.
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By marvh - 15 Years Ago
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I am also running the iridium NGK's and really like them.
Here is a link to some spark plug reading. The guy is mopar but they still have pistons going up and down also.
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html
marv
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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That's a good link. Unfortunately, i wiped off the threads yesterday so the heat range check cannot be done.
According to that info, I have too much timing. I have 34 degrees total.
How about an outline on plug reading from some of the pros here? There's so much stuff on the web that is sometimes contradictory I don't know which ones to believe.
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By Nick Brann - 15 Years Ago
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Hi Charlie, I agree with Tulio that #8 has too much oil, probably a bad valve guide or seal. The heat range on some of them seems to be too hot. The last time I checked an NGK catalog, they only offered one heat range for the Y-block engines. I think you need a colder plug, I'd go with a copper plug until you get the heat range dialed in. Good luck, Nick Brann - K.C., MO
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By Nick Brann - 15 Years Ago
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Hi Charlie, I got to say "Thank You" for the excellent photos. That really makes a difference for us who are trying to help. Good luck, Nick Brann
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By crenwelge - 15 Years Ago
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There is something going on in the no. 1 hole. As for the porcelain chipping, it seems strange, but I have had it happen too. I guess I am a bit old fashioned, but I feel like my Y-blocks run the best with the old F14Y Champions. I buy them on eBay every chance I get. They also fit some Cushman engines and there are dealers who still have a bunch in stock.
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By lovefordgalaxie - 15 Years Ago
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Charlie, that #6 plug had a insulation problem, that black stain on the insulator, indicates spark jumping to the wrong place. May be caused by a crarck on the ceramic, it kind of makes sense that that plug broke.
I used Champions RF11YC and NGK APR5FS.
A cross reference table will indicate the heat range is equivalent, 11 on Champion ~= 5 NGK.
On practice, the Champions appear colder (get tanner) than NGK.
Everione around here running iridium plugs on Y-Blocks have the same problem you do, with overheated plugs.
The best ones untill now were the NGKs APR5FS, correct heat range, and troble free.
I would give it a try. Maybe I'm not a very "modern" guy, but the conventional plugs work great for me.
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By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago
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lovefordgalaxie (8/23/2010)
Charlie, that #6 plug had a insulation problem, that black stain on the insulator, indicates spark jumping to the wrong place. May be caused by a crarck on the ceramic, it kind of makes sense that that plug broke. I used Champions RF11YC and NGK APR5FS. A cross reference table will indicate the heat range is equivalent, 11 on Champion ~= 5 NGK. On practice, the Champions appear colder (get tanner) than NGK. Everione around here running iridium plugs on Y-Blocks have the same problem you do, with overheated plugs. The best ones untill now were the NGKs APR5FS, correct heat range, and troble free. I would give it a try. Maybe I'm not a very "modern" guy, but the conventional plugs work great for me. After years of using champion plugs in business and my cars, often encountered broken porcelains, it was after changing to NGK,S on race day and noticing much improved performance, i have stayed with NGK APR5FS. plugs, although i struggle with the part numbers compared to Champion and KLG,s.
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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lovefordgalaxie (8/23/2010)
Charlie, that #6 plug had a insulation problem, that black stain on the insulator, indicates spark jumping to the wrong place. May be caused by a crarck on the ceramic, it kind of makes sense that that plug broke.
I used Champions RF11YC and NGK APR5FS.
A cross reference table will indicate the heat range is equivalent, 11 on Champion ~= 5 NGK.
On practice, the Champions appear colder (get tanner) than NGK.
Everione around here running iridium plugs on Y-Blocks have the same problem you do, with overheated plugs.
The best ones untill now were the NGKs APR5FS, correct heat range, and troble free.
I would give it a try. Maybe I'm not a very "modern" guy, but the conventional plugs work great for me.
What is it that makes it look hot, rather than lean? I need to get a good hold of this stuff s please explain why you come to that conclusion.
Re not being a "modern" guy, I'll use whatever works. I've just heard good things about the iridium's so I tried them. If it turns out they don't work for me, then I don't have to be "modern" either.
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By Moz - 15 Years Ago
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KLG's geez bill i havent seen them in years im running NGK AP5FS i dont need the resistor plug been in 20k miles & havent touched them.
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By lovefordgalaxie - 15 Years Ago
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Charlie, other than the plug's own heat range being too hot, there are a few other reasons why it can run hot. Lean mixture is just one. Too much alcohol into the fuel is another, since around here fuel gets up to 25% in alcohol, when some "smart" gas station has the idea of adding more alcohol, the result is poor performance, and in some cases, overheated plugs. A too strong spark, also can, in some cases, to overheat a plug, saw this already with some high performance ignitions, and regular plugs. In your case, I beat the problem is the plug's heat range being too high.
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By lovefordgalaxie - 15 Years Ago
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Just remembered, if the ignition timing is too advanced, it can be another cause to everheat a plug. Seen that too.
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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I do have a hot ignition. I don't know the specs on it but the maker suggest a gap of .055". I also haven't run anything other than the NGKs with the hotter ignition. I'll pick up some Autolite 45s on the way home from work and put them in.
Re the ignition advance, according to the link provided a few posts up, I have too much. Does anyone else with real world experience agree with the info in that link? I wouldn't think 34 degrees is too much with g heads but maybe the vacuum advance is putting it over the limit.
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By lovefordgalaxie - 15 Years Ago
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Charlie, if you decrease the advance a little, does the engine shows too much decrease in performance?
The advance may be going too far, but sounds more like a plug problem to me.
When I'm trying to solve a problem, I never deal with more than one thing at a time. If you modify the advance, and the plugs at the same time, if the problem is cured, you will never know what did it. I would change the plugs first, since you have to replace at least one, do what you said, and change the 8.
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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I'll only do one change at a time. How many miles should I put on them between readings?
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By marvh - 15 Years Ago
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Charlie:
Are you running a MSD distributor.
When you say 34 deg, is that total advance (ie) initial + vacuum+ mechanical or ? and what RPM
marv
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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It's a Duraspark unit by Performance Distributors.
I'm running 14 initial, mechanical provides 20 by 3000rpm. I'm not sure just how much the vacuum provides - it's whatever they set it at and I haven't checked.
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By lovefordgalaxie - 15 Years Ago
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Drive it as usual, and in a couple of days, you will be able to see the result. In less than 50 miles, they will be teling you "what they think". Sometimes, city driving can delay the results if the plug is too hot, because the driving conditions can make the hotter plugs more tolerable by the engine. A good highway drive will show the truth.
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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Give me a ball park for the number of miles to ensure I get a good read. I have a week to figure this out if I'm going to take it to Columbus; A few days will only allow 2 chances to check them. My house is only a few miles from the highway so i can put tome highway miles on them easily.
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By 46yblock - 15 Years Ago
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This only adds to the data on Charlie's problem. I just did a search to find out what a suppressor spark plug was exactly. Champion's site came up and there was a blip on plug breakage. Showed a pic similar to charlie's. "Breakage is usually caused by thermal expansion and thermal shock due to sudden heating and cooling". That's all folks  .
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By lovefordgalaxie - 15 Years Ago
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If you want to be sure Charlie, 100 miles would be enough. What Mike said just shows how much the plugs are heating. Heating enough, to break. I do a 180 Km trip every other week with my Galaxie, and it's very close to 100 miles. After that, the plugs always are the color they would be for a long time. You don't need to speed up a lot or anything, just drive like you always do.
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By Ol'ford nut - 15 Years Ago
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This is from another post by GREENBIRD-Here is why you want the limited distributor advance setting - the engine will only tolerate something like 36°-38° of total mechanical advance (that is the initial plus the distributor) under load (with low/no manifold vacuum). You want to put more initial on the bottom (10°-12°) without violating the upper limit. If you were to use the 18L slot - then the initial advance set point would have to be down at 0°-2°. When using the 13L slot, the initial can be 10°-12° (adding some nice low end torque) and not violate the advance limit as the engine gets into the higher rev's. You mentioned your initial advance was 14. It would seem to me that you are advanced a little too much. I don't know which slot your distributor is set at but believe you should set back your initial to around 8 degrees. Here again I don't know your compression or the fuel you are using. As far as plugs go I have had the best luck with platium. GOOD LUCK
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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My mechanical advance provides 20 degrees. I have 34 total. The heads are G's with polished chambers and compresion is about 9.35:1. I run premium.
I put a set of Autolite 45s in last night. Hopefully I can get enough readings between now and the 2nd.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 15 Years Ago
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I think that Charlie's engine is a bit different than the average motor in our everyday drivers. It has some increased efficiency heads and a "real" compression ratio. Both of which allow the engine to run with decreased spark lead. My 312 has some "C" heads of unmeasured chamber volume - and it has a composition head gasket - not the original steel shim style Ford put in there. It has nothing near the advertised compression ratio......and no head porting or valve upsizing - bone stock stuff. Because of its lower efficiency - the fire has to have a head start when trying to build cylinder pressure (make power). Charlie's choice of the increased initial lead and a more reduced centrifugal advance - for a total of 34° is not at all unreasonable for the combination he has. Once he has chosen an advance set-up - he then goes about building a carburetor fuel curve to suit it. If it is dipping lean at some point in the "curve" - it could explain the plug situation.
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By Ted - 15 Years Ago
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Charlie. What carb are you running and what jets? Are the jets the ‘as supplied’ jet sizes or have you changed them? In regards to oxygen probes or sensors, I find some variability between them and sometimes as much as a full point so you have to give them some latitude when using the numbers generated by them.
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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It's a Holley Street Avenger 570. I have 60s in the primaries (richer), and changed the secondary diaphragm spring. Everything else is "out of the box".
My sensor has 3 lights. One for lean, one for rich, and one for just right. I erred on the safe side and jetted it until the rich light started to come on.
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By lovefordgalaxie - 15 Years Ago
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Wise decision, with the kind of compression you have.
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By lovefordgalaxie - 15 Years Ago
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Hey Charlie, what happened with the new plugs?
Stil superheating?
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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I haven't done much with them yet. I pulled a couple yesterday during lunch and they looked hardly used, which I guess is expected with only about 15 miles on them.
I'm not going to take it to Columbus, again, this year. I feel like I'll be rushing it. The last time I did that, I had to turn around in Tennessee. I have a lot of other stuff to get done between now and then, too.
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By pintoplumber - 15 Years Ago
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Charlie, I got it all figured out. Put a tow bar on that firebird and drag that truck to Columbus. [That is if you really have a truck]
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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Now that will be asking for trouble. With the 3.08 gear, it won't get all of that moving very easily.
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By MoonShadow - 15 Years Ago
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But once you get it rolling WOW! Chuck in NH
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By Bigwin56F100 - 15 Years Ago
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The 15 miles you put on it = 60 trips down the track!
Here I am poking fun and I dont even know if mine will start!
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