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By Talkwrench - 15 Years Ago
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Another one guys , I bought one of those power booster kits a while back, any tips on fitting those. I have the dual circuit master cylinder and need a diagram of where the brake lines should go. this is for drums all round... Cheers!
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By Ol'ford nut - 15 Years Ago
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This is easy. Look at the frame behind the left front wheel. You will find a brass junction block that divide the front and rear brakes. Remove the line going to the rear and put in a screw in plug. These are availiable where you get you brake line. Then you will need about 30 inch brake line and connector hooked onto the line going to the rear to go up to your master cylinder. Rear line goes to front of master cylinder, front one to rear. Bleed and your done.
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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The only thing I would ad is bench bleed the master before hooking up lines.The plastic lines that come with the master are a waist of time.Get 2 short steel lines and bend so they go back into resovoir under the fluid level(so not exposed to air) and bleed in a vise until no air bubbles appear.This will save you some time and grief when you bleed the whole system.I did my lines a little different.Got a second connector block that will bolt to frame to hookup front line.I used the existing block to hookup rear brakes with a plug where the front line hooked in.I would suggest running lines on the fender side of the master to avoid the heat of the manifolds.As for the brake light switch I put a 3 way tee in the line comming out of the master that would accept 2 brake lines and the switch.Done right the existing wires will reach the switch without splicing new wire.If you are using the kit where the master ends up tilted up(angled mounting brackets)I found I had to do some trimming with a grinder to get the brackets to fit flat against the firewall.The pushrod ends up at a funny angle so I drilled a second hole in the pedal lower(about 1-1 1/2 inches) than the original hole where the pushrod ends up with the new setup.No problems-works fine.Make sure you adjust the new pushrod length so there is a little freeplay before you feel resistance when the pushrod starts to push on the booster.This ensures the brakes are fully released when the brake pedal is released.My buddy did his with drum brakes and it stops like a different car.Very happy with the setup for a reasonable investment.I put discs on mine and it stops even better than his.
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By Talkwrench - 15 Years Ago
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Guys can I just check about which lines go where at the master cyl. I ask because when I was at the brake shop they had a look at the master cyl and they seem to think the front brake lines go to the front of the cyl and the back line goes to the back.. Its the kit from old Irish Dave. What is the master cylinder off anyway?
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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Don't guess. Usually the larger reservoir is for the front brakes. Determine the application for the cylinder and then you can find out which is which.
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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Both resovoirs are the same size because this is a Corvette style with 4 wheel disc brakes.I have mine plumbed front to rear brakes and rear to front brakes.I dont think it is real critical unless you are using disc front with a prop valve.If there was a large and small resovoir the large one is for front brakes.
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By YellowWing - 15 Years Ago
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I also have the master from Dave. I also have the GM proportioning valve. It requires the front port go to the front brakes (there are two outlets out of the valve) and the rear port goes to the rear brakes ( one port out of the valve). Here is a link that shows the correct port for most masters. http://www.mpbrakes.com/uploads/documents/mcplumbingpdf.pdf
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By Talkwrench - 15 Years Ago
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Thanks guys . Like you Mark I have had to trim the brackets to get it to fit around the screws coming through the firewall Agh! looks like either trimming the upper side of the firewall hole so the brake rod goes through or taking the pedal out and drilling another hole like you did. How did you seal up the hole thats in the firewall? the rubber cushion thing on the rod its too far away and wont do it..mm The brake booster is very close to the manifold... any problems anyone?? make a heat shield? Any tips for undoing the brake lines.. 50+ years and they wont budge, Ive wrecked one nut already and broken the mounting at the block.. I should have just cut the line and used a ring spanner instead of trying an open ender on them AGHhh!! Who was the bright spark that designed and put them in such and awkward place..same one that put the front balancer seal on the INSIDE of the timing cover I suppose.. I think it might be safe for me to put the front lines to the front and back to the back of the master cyl. Its the only way I have ever seen brake lines go..The guys that looked at it in the brake shop said something like they could see bigger ports at the front.
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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I drilled the pedal in the car.Put down a cloth to collect the chips and use a quality drill bit.Its NOT hardened steel.If you redrill the pedal you wont have to touch the firewall and brake works fine.I used a rubber body plug(same size as the one on the transmission tunnel) to seal the pushrod at the firewall.Cut a hole for the pushrod to go through and cut slits towards the outer edge of the plug to make it flexible for the pushrod to move.Clearance near the manifold is sufficient as is.Just run your lines on the fender side away from the manifold.You really do need a proper brake nut wrench to work on the lines-removing or installing.You wont round off the fittings.All ports on the master are the same size.The brake lines were installed prior to the body being installed I think-same as the fuel lines.I redid mine with the motor out so it was easy.The 2 screws that stick through the fire wall were not a problem.I think I just removed them from inside the car.Trimming of the mounts was required so the bracket would sit flat on the firewall.
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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Talkwrench (12/20/2010)
Any tips for undoing the brake lines.. 50+ years and they wont budge, Ive wrecked one nut already and broken the mounting at the block.. I should have just cut the line and used a ring spanner instead of trying an open ender on them AGHhh!!
I've heard them called Line nut wrenches and flare nut wrenches. They are amazing. Still not guaranteed to get it loose, but odds are that it will come loose without rounding if that type of wrench is used. It's essentially a reinforced 6 point box end wrench with just enough cut out so it fill fit over the tubing and onto the nut. They are also available as a crows foot style for use with a ratchet.
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By YellowWing - 15 Years Ago
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My firewall had a bunch of holes from a couple different master cylinders. I wanted to install the new master as high as possible so I could remove the valve cover without removing the master and to keep it away from the heat of the manifold. So I enlarged the hole through the firewall on the top side until the brake rod aligned with the brake pedal arm hole. I then made an aluminum plate that fit between the booster bracket and firewall, I drilled a hole in the correct place in the plate and welded a short piece of angle cut tubing to the plate. Plate was sealed to the firewall and booster was installed with a short piece of hose between the tubing I welded and the snout on the booster. The whole assembly ended up being installed slid all the way up in the slots. I can remove the valve cover no problem.
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By shakey pete - 15 Years Ago
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my guess is if you have a duel drum brake master cyl. it should have a residual check valve built into it., so there for, you have to know is the front reservoir primary for the front brakes because your fronts should start to activate before the rears like % 60 front and 40 rear so in winter conditions you rears don,t come on first then you,ll see things happen !!! and disk brake masters don,t used a check valve drum brake masters reguire about 5to 7 psi to maintain a small amount of fluid pressure to keep shoe to drum contact till they wear and have to be adjusted and so you have brake pedel rite away and fluid pressure with in and couple of inchs and most front disks have a small reservoir for the rear and a large res . for the front this is just my thought hope this helps (clear as mud ) shakey Pete and merry xmas to all
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By rick55 - 15 Years Ago
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I've heard them called Line nut wrenches and flare nut wrenches. They are amazing.
Absolutely the only way to get brake lines undone.
Even the cheap Chinese spanners you seem to be only able to get these days will almost always get them loose. Sometimes a little bit of careful heat helps to free the rust on the nut threads. DON'T TWIST THE PIPES!!!
Regards
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By Talkwrench - 15 Years Ago
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When I ordered the kit from Old Irish Dave I asked the question; It looks as though I may be keeping my car with the drum brakes setup due to club licensing here [not supossed to even have this type of brake booster].
So this unit works fine with the drums? and how do the brakelines work going to a dual curcuit?
answer;Rob, You have to separate fronts from rears and plumb accordingly to the dual master cyl. Everything else will work fine. You shouldn't need any valves at all as long as you keep your brakes adjusted up properly.
SO, as far as I can see it I dont need any valves.. or as far as told!.. Mark did your mate with the drums have any problems? Im still going Front to front rear to rear with the lines ....Yes? LAst call people for any other info as I'll start to do the lines etc tonight... Rick, John any of our guys got this setup???
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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My buddy with a 55 with drum brakes used this booster/master setup also.He did not add any valves to the setup and it works fine.As mentioned before the lines on mine are front resovoir to rear brakes and rear resovoir to front brakes.I do not have the factory style prop valve(I have front discs on mine)but I do have an adjustable valve on the frame to adjust pressure to rear brakes.Dont bforget to bench bleed the master before installing it.I just did a little search on the internet regarding plumbing and residual pressure valves.On disc brake vehicles with 2 different size resovoirs the front one is usually the bigger one and goes to the front brakes-so thats what I would suggest you do even though mine is the opposite.Residual pressure valves are usually required when the master cylinder is even with or lower than the wheel cylinders or calipers such as when the master is mounted under the floor.I do not think you need them on yours as my buddys car worked fine without the.I would suggest that you create some "loops" in the steel line going from master to the frame.These will handle stress created from heat and vibration.I used a piece of PVC pipe in a vise and carefully bent the line around the pipe to create 2-3 loops.The steel line wont collapse if you keep pressure against the pipe(or whatever you use) as you shape the steel line. Hope this is helpful.
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By Talkwrench - 15 Years Ago
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Yep haven't forgotten what you said about the "hardlines' to the master cyl for bleeding, so havin that knocked up this arvo with the other lines... Why did you do the lines rear to to front, front to rear????
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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I just edited my last post as you were posting yours.I think I answered your question when I edited it.
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By Talkwrench - 15 Years Ago
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Always helpfull Mark... I thought about doing the loops, but thought it was not necessary the lines are straight out to the fender and then down as far away as they are going to get from any heat etc.. plus I was running out of line... Think I will try making up some sort of heat shield for the booster, its gonna cook! Its good to know Im on the right track..
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By rick55 - 15 Years Ago
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Rob, I'm running much the same system as you with no prolems. No need for proportioning valves or anything. The word from the local examiner is that pedalvac system is fine.
Regards
Rick
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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The suggested coils in the line are not so much for heat but more to absorb vibration.
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By Talkwrench - 15 Years Ago
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AGHHHhhh!! Im not having joy from this.... the lines that I have had made up are not doing well... Ive tightned them up several times to get them to seal ... Mmm Not happy Jan!! Did take it for a run and its a big difference, just need some fine adjustment with the pedal and a lot of prayers that the lines hold out and things stop leaking!!
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By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
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They shouldn't require much to seal. Resist the urge to strip threads and make certain the double flares are square and that any of the fittings have not been damaged previously.
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By Talkwrench - 15 Years Ago
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It has been frustrating and Im aware it shouldn't take much to seal. I think Ive done it [fingers crossed] Its all new parts thats the thing I cant understand. Going into the old lines it hasn't been a problem , the lines going into the new mastercylinder and even the copper washer where the brake switch is just refused to seal..AGhhhh! Merry Chirstmas everyone !
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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I tried the brake light switch in that "special" fitting and could not get it to stop seeping.I purchased a 3-way tee( as used on the frame) and put it in the line comming out of the master using a short line from the master and the existing new line down to the frame.I dont know why the fitting supplied with the booster to use the brake light switch wont seal properly.Looks like a good install you did.If you overtighten the lines going into the master the flare will flatten out and leak.Do not use pipe sealant tape on the fittings.I dont know if your replacement lines come with one short and one long fittings like ours but I used the long fitting into the master cylinder.I just had another look at your pic.Are those new lines steel or copper?In the pic they look like copper.I was under the impression that these cars exported to Ozzy were RH drive.Guess I was wrong.
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By Talkwrench - 15 Years Ago
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Mark I bought a length of tube and just made my own lines, then took it to the brake place to get them to do the double flares for me..Dont think it was such a good job they did as it didnt seal well .. He said to me the line was copper impregnated... uugh??? Yes we have right hand drive ones, the Customline as they are kown here but my car I found in Cali and bought it out.
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By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
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They may be too soft which is part of the problem.I guess I just take it for granted when I walk into the local parts store and buy premade steel line in whatever length is close to what I need.
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