|
By Outlaw56 - 14 Years Ago
|
There is a lot of information on swapping Toyota 4x4 Power Steering box to replace the manual steering in 56 Ford F-100's. Other than brakets being available to adapt Eaton or Saginaw Pumps to a ford Y Block, I have not been able to find much on what pumps and pulleys are the most effective and popular when making this swap. Are there any members who have made this swap who can provide details and information about adding a pump, pulleys, and brackets to the Y-
Block?
|
|
By PF Arcand - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Derrell; try John Mummert Y-Block @ www.ford-y-block.com & in CA at 619-596-0312.
|
|
By Rono - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Outlaw 56; I had a 56 F-100 a few years back. I installed a power ram assist set-up that I got from one of the aftermarket companies. I think Mid Fifty's F-100 Parts or So-Cal Pick-ups. You keep your stock steering box, but need to buy a power steering pump. I used the Ford Eaton pump and brackets. The kit came with the ram, hoses, brackets and I think a new drag link. It worked surprisingly well and I was pretty happy with it. Rono
|
|
By HT32BSX115 - 14 Years Ago
|
That Eaton pump was used on MANY cars and (even Medium Duty) trucks well into the 60's or so.
You can buy the pump below (rebuilt) from Rock Auto and many others.....
http://www.stangerssite.com/HowItWorksEatonPump.html
The "Power Assist" hydraulic system (using the you mentioned was used on 70's 4x4 F250trucks and Econoline vans for more than a few years....
Here's a great description on how they work.....
http://www.stangerssite.com/PSoverview.html
The above system is what I'm planning for my 55 F-600
Regards,
Rick
BTW, here's a link to Mummerts Brackets!
http://ford-y-block.com/accessories.htm
|
|
By Outlaw56 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks for the input. It appears there is an option when using the eaton power steering pump on which bracket can be used. Some pumps require front mount, others rear mount. Both of these options obviously determine what pulley to use. At this time, I am concentrating my efforts strictly on the pump and pullies. Thanks for your help!
|
|
By HT32BSX115 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Outlaw56 (2/16/2011)
Thanks for the input. It appears there is an option when using the eaton power steering pump on which bracket can be used. Some pumps require front mount, others rear mount. Both of these options obviously determine what pulley to use. At this time, I am concentrating my efforts strictly on the pump and pullies. Thanks for your help!
The pump above is the one that should work with the brackets that Mummert sells (FRONT mount). Check with him on that. There's other pumps like the one he shows in his picture. I think an additional pulley must be bolted in front of the damper with most of them.
|
|
By Outlaw56 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
When running a Y Block with Alternator, Air Conditioner Compressor, Water Pump, and Power Steering Pump, does a double pulley on the dampner run all these and if so, is there a specific configuration on which componets are doubled up?
|
|
By Rono - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Darrell; I run all those accessories on my 56 Customline and yes, I do use 2 grooves on the crank pulley. I actually have a triple sheave crank pulley, but I only use 2 of the 3 grooves. On my AC/Alternator set-up, the AC compressor sits below the alternator, but those two components are aligned to use the same belt. The PS and water pump run off the other belt. The bracket set-up for the AC/Alternator needed quite a bit of tweekeing to get the alignment right. I got the bracket kit from a company in Florida (can't remember their name right now), But the spacers needed to be modified in addition to the tension adjustment for the alternator. In fact, I had to have a new bracket made (plasma cut) for the alternator to allow for more tension on the belt. Hope this helps. Rono
|
|
By Outlaw56 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Rono, That confirms exactly what I thought it should be. I think John M has a double dampner pully and power steering brackets. I already had the air and alternator brackets from Vintage Air the lined up perfect. Just need the power steering brackets for the power steering pump. I have a 1954 Mercury 256 in one 56 Ford F-100 and I am struggling with how much I want to do with this engine. I would love to find a good rebuildable 292 and suspect some of the parts I get for the 256 are not interchangeable with a 292/312 block. My other 56 has a blueprint balanced 351 Windsor with all the bells and whistles (425 HP), so the Y Block is going to be a daily driver. I originally planned on installing a 351 in this truck, but found this site and got hooked on the Y Block. Thanks for your input.
|
|
By HT32BSX115 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Outlaw56 (2/19/2011)
When running a Y Block with Alternator, Air Conditioner Compressor, Water Pump, and Power Steering Pump, does a double pulley on the dampner run all these and if so, is there a specific configuration on which componets are doubled up?
It's gonna depend on how you set it up.
Here's how I'm doing mine.
|
|
By Outlaw56 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
HT, Nice photos. I have one question. What is the purpose of having dual belts driving the alternator and air compressor off the balancer? Great photos and this really helps illustrate the options. Thanks!
|
|
By HT32BSX115 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Outlaw56 (2/21/2011)
HT,
Nice photos. I have one question. What is the purpose of having dual belts driving the alternator and air compressor off the balancer? Great photos and this really helps illustrate the options. Thanks!
Thanks,
I wanted 2 belts driving the both the A/C compressor and ALT because it takes a fair amount of power to run them. (the ALT is a 100A unit)
I probably didn't have to do it but the grooves are there so I decided to use them. I didn't want "screeching" belts & pulleys, and with 2, they won't have to be all that tight.
The one loose belt will run up over the fan drive which I made some "mock-up" brackets to get an idea of where they should go.
I won't know how high I want the fan until I get the engine sitting on the mounts, so I may just build the engine mounts and put it in the truck so I can get a more accurate position on it.
I am planning to use SIDE-engine mounts and a single mount on the tail-housing of the automatic transmission (E4OD)
The carb is a new Holley 0-8007 390 cfm with an automatic choke and Holley throttle position sensor kit.
The exhaust manifolds are directly from John Mummert. I had them ceramic coated by Peformance coatings In Auburn, Wa. http://www.performancecoatings.com/ It wasn't all that expensive. They really look nice and will never rust!
Cheers,
Rick
|
|
By Outlaw56 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
I have the same alternator and regulator brackets from Vintage Air. A third party advised me not to run the regulator and condensor pump on the same belt because of the clutch kicking in and out on the compressor. He felt this would consume the regulator over a short period of time. I contacted Vintage Air and they confirmed this was the way thier brakets were designed and they had no problems with regulators prematurely burning out. I like your set up with dual pulleys. I have a voice mail into John to get a better understanding of how the dampner pulley mounts to the dampner. I don't know if it just bolts to the existing dampner or replaces the pulley that is stock on the dampner. I got my ram horns from John too, but painted them with an exhaust paint. I think I will look into the ceramic coating you did, that would be a much better finish. I want to use a saginaw pump to retrofit my 56 with power steering. No one seems to know which saginaw pumps run in the 600-700 psi range for the Toyota Steering Box swap. There are so many options, but nothing gives the specifics about what pressure the pumps run at. Is there a specific replacement pump I should be looking for?
|
|
By HT32BSX115 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
I have the same alternator and regulator brackets from Vintage Air. A third party advised me not to run the regulator and condensor pump on the same belt because of the clutch kicking in and out on the compressor.
I'm not following you on the "regulator" or "Condensor" What are they?
There is no problem I know of having an A/C compressor and an alternator running on the same set of belts. (ALL serpentine systems run EVERYTHING on one belt etc!)
|
|
By Outlaw56 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
HT, my error. I meant compressor, not condensor. And I agree with you. The March Pulley system on my 351 runs everthing on one belt. I checked with my brother in law who is a retired mechanic and he confirmed this. The issue with the third party I talked to was concerned that running the air compressor and and alternator on the same belt would burn out the regulator because of the clutch kicking in and out on the air compressor. I have yet to find anyone who has agreed this would be a problem. Thanks everyone for a lot of good input on this subject!
|
|
By Ted - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Outlaw56 (2/23/2011)
......The issue with the third party I talked to was concerned that running the air compressor and and alternator on the same belt would burn out the regulator because of the clutch kicking in and out on the air compressor. There’s no issue running the A/C compressor and the alternator on the same belt. There were quite a few oem setups that did exactly this. The only caution here is that there is enough belt gripping the pulleys so that belt slippage is minimized. This is why you’ll see dual belts on both the A/C compressor and the alternator.
|
|
By HT32BSX115 - 14 Years Ago
|
Ted (2/24/2011)
Outlaw56 (2/23/2011)
......The issue with the third party I talked to was concerned that running the air compressor and and alternator on the same belt would burn out the regulator because of the clutch kicking in and out on the air compressor. There’s no issue running the A/C compressor and the alternator on the same belt. There were quite a few oem setups that did exactly this. The only caution here is that there is enough belt gripping the pulleys so that belt slippage is minimized. This is why you’ll see dual belts on both the A/C compressor and the alternator.
Yeah, I was concerned about not having enough belt-pulley contact with the alternator. 100A at 14v is 1400W (a little less than 2HP) I guess I could calculate the actual torque on the pulley at 2000 (engine) RPM....and then go find some engr data on what the minimum accepted V-belt contact and tension is required............  (my late father would know that the money spent getting me an engr degree was actually well spent!!)
The rear belt on the alt in my picture actually has a little more than 90 degrees of contact on the (rear groove) pulley. depending on how tight it is, I suppose it *could* slip. The belt that is going to go up to the "high-mount" fan will have much less contact.......but if there is a problem, I can just add an idler to get more ALT pulley contact...... I think it'll be just fine though
|
|
By kansas - 14 Years Ago
|
|
if your runing 1 belt for a/c and alt does't it also have to drive the water pump too? to me that to much for one belt and you will also have to adj it awful tight/could be hard on alt and water pump bearings
|
|
By kansas - 14 Years Ago
|
|
I just looked at that picture again/that water pump has a longer shalf than the one I have thats the only way that it could line up with power steering pump/sorry my mistake
|
|
By HT32BSX115 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
kansas (2/25/2011)
I just looked at that picture again/that water pump has a longer shalf than the one I have thats the only way that it could line up with power steering pump/sorry my mistake
No problem!
The shaft IS the original length (and probably the same as yours if your water pump is a stock y-block pump.......)
I just removed the OFFSET pulley (and the pressed on flange) from the water pump and put a different pulley (with a tapered bushing) that aligns it with the add-on pulley for the PS pump.
You can see there's a keyway in the bushing but I don't think I'll need it. Water pumps don't require much torque to turn them. I can probably just tighten the taper-fit split bushing enough and have it work just fine. If it slips, I'll cut a keyway in the water pump shaft with the neighbors milling machine.
I used the following pulley and bushing from the Surplus Center
The above pictures are not to the same scale...the bushing above actually fits IN the pulley above it!
I used the same type pulley (slightly different dia) and same type 1" bushing for my "high-mount" fan drive on the 1" shaft. I may have to cut a keyway in that one though because it may take considerably more torque to turn the 6 blade 19" fan when the clutch engages.
I'm going to turn the end of the shaft down on a lathe to match the flange I pressed off the water pump so I can just bolt the fan clutch right on the shaft like it did on the water pump.
|