|
By scott5560 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Anyone with any Shnieder cam experience? Has anyone used the Schnieder 256F profile cam? My 292 (C2AE) lifters look fine but is it totally taboo to reuse them with a new cam? Must they break in together? Comp cams has a lifter set for the y-block has anyone used them with another cam?
|
|
By Ted - 14 Years Ago
|
|
scott5560 (2/24/2011)
Anyone with any Shnieder cam experience? Has anyone used the Schnieder 256F profile cam? My 292 (C2AE) lifters look fine but is it totally taboo to reuse them with a new cam? Must they break in together? Comp cams has a lifter set for the y-block has anyone used them with another cam?No Schneider cam experience here for a Y-Block but have used them in Flatheads. Regarding using used lifters, it’s not totally taboo but it is risky to swap lifters around even on the same camshaft much less moving them to another camshaft. Especially if the valve spring pressure is increased to cover expectations of higher rpms. The Y is even more difficult to change out the lifters than the mainstream engines so if there is a failure, it's a bunch more work to change out the parts required.
|
|
By scott5560 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
I have been reading about all the lifter issues and such. Was also wondering if the later engines (C2AE)maybe had better parts. The block I have is still stock bore and crank measures stock too. So this motor appears untouched possibly so thought maybe a set of good stock OE lifters would be a good choice maybe. Using a mild cam and not a rev motor so figured use stock springs.
|
|
By crenwelge - 14 Years Ago
|
I am so down on the offshore junk being peddled these days that I prefer used lifters and let these guys reface them.
www.mizpahprecision.com/
|
|
By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
|
|
I just got a set of lifters back resurfaced by http://www.oregoncamshaft.com/ Very nice people and nice work. $4.00 a lifter and usps priority mail of about $6.00 each way and about a week from when I sent them. Tim Mcmaster told me about them.
|
|
By 46yblock - 14 Years Ago
|
glrbird (2/25/2011)
I just got a set of lifters back resurfaced by http://www.oregoncamshaft.com/ Very nice people and nice work. $4.00 a lifter and usps priority mail of about $6.00 each way and about a week from when I sent them. Tim Mcmaster told me about them. Do the lifters have the same hardness after regrinding as before?
|
|
By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Mike I don't have the instrument to measure the hardness, but there is very small amount of material being removed. As long as it is not overheated when grinding there should not be a problem. Think of it like grinding valves, it does not change the metalergy. You could email them and ask, they are friendly.
|
|
By yblockpinto312 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Tim: Ted: The more I read about this cam lifter thing, the more fear I have. I bought the cam and lifters off E bay, so i`m not sure what I`ve got. What worries me, is when I kicked that pushrod at Columbus. Was that the begining of lifter cam failure? Or did I just have brainfade when I set the valves? I`ve got 39 runs on the motor now, John Mummert thinks if it was going to fail, it would have by now. What do you guys think?
|
|
By MoonShadow - 14 Years Ago
|
|
I've seen lots of pushrods bent or lost on Y-blocks without additional cam or lifter damage. I think you got lucky on this one. As I recall didn't the rocker arm have a problem that caused the push rod to jump? I would think if the cam or lifter was damaged you would have see more trouble by now. What kind of times are you turning now that you've had a chance to dial things in? Chuck in NH
|
|
By yblockpinto312 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
The last time I raced, it ran good. The last run, was run was Oct 10. On 11.43 dial, I broke out with "41". My slack 0.53 did`nt get it done against my scub "buddys" 0.13. I`m just a worrier. I`m not beyond whipping this motor out and changing lifters, just to feel safe.
|
|
By pintoplumber - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Did anybody mention you have to run with a restrictor plate at Columbus this year?
|
|
By yehaabill - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Y-Guy Dennis: You really know how to "wake" everyone up on a Saturday morning. I think Greg and his Pinto 312 need one!!!(My restrictor is between my ears!!!) Bill
|
|
By Rono - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Getting back to the lifter and hardness question; It's my understanding that both steel and iron lifters were available for the Y's. Can both types be resurfaced? Also, if I'm not mistaken, originally the lifters were heated in an oven and quenched with oil for the hardness/tempering process. Maybe I'm wrong on this (wouldn't be the first time), but it would be good to know if the resurfaced lifters go through any type of hardening process. I wonder if new lifters are even hardened these days. Rono
|
|
By mctim64 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Let's see if I can remember each question. First I would say a definite "NO" to using used lifters on a new cam, just look at all the other concerns, do you want to worry about that too? I have used nothing but refaced stock Ford lifters and the only trouble I have had was before I sorted out the oil problem (ZDDP), nothing but good luck since then. I believe factory Ford lifters are the same hardness all the way through and refacing takes very little off anyway. When you assemble your engine another thing to be careful of is lifters that sick in the bore for some reason, they should be able to spin freely. Good assembly lube and good oil (Brad Penn in my case) is a must and be careful of high spring pressures, I actually have a set of heads that have light, old, stock springs that I break-in the race engines with then swap heads after about 20-30 min. run time. Yes, if your cam is going to destroy itself it will most likely happen in the first 20-30 min. after that hard runs and high spring pressure may wear on it slowly but it should take a bit of time.
|
|
By mctim64 - 14 Years Ago
|
I should add another plug for http://www.oregoncamshaft.com/ , very nice folk, they have always been good to me and their MP-34 grind has really done good things for our 258ci Y in the "Yellow Brick" we tried other cams but have gone back to it, just can't beat it.  I have gone to a different grind for the "LSR Uni" but it will have almost 100 more cubes so a little different timing and a bit more lift. 
|
|
By Y block Billy - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Harnes is done many different ways, Carburized, thru hardened, case hardened, Induction hardened etc. I beleive the earlier Ford lifters were thru hardened and when they went to the later 270/285 HP cam they mention some induction hardened lifters needed to be used with them since they had a wear hardening surface. (see DK post on 285 cam) In any case the induction hardened are more than likely 1/8" depth which you should never get through resurfacing. I agree with resurfacing for security reasons. We need a list of safe lifters posted some where and the ones to stay away from. I see those VL21 ones listed at Maddog racing and elsewhere, Have these been examined?
|
|
By MoonShadow - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Billy, I had proposed a forum topic on here to list just that. Our experiences with the good the bad and the ugly. Along with parts that didn't fit AND the companies that sell this junk. Even a listing of companies that didn't provide good support. Not a place for rants but a real listing of "friends to the hobby". Chuck in NH
|
|
By scott5560 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks guys. I have sent some e-mails waitin for some responses from the mentioned shops.
|
|
By yblockpinto312 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Tim: My core motor was an untouched 1957 292. Would the lifters from it be good ones to resurface? I understand there are "chilled iron", "hardenable iron", and "steel". How do we know what we`re dealing with? I hav`nt been around Y blocks for 40 years so I got some catching up to do in this area. Thanks.
|
|
By mctim64 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Here's a couple of pix. the "steel" ones have a thin looking base (left in top picture and second picture) while the cast "chilled iron" are thicker (right in top and third). I myself prefer the "Steel" but the Iron ones seem to hold up just fine and are quite hard. 
|
|
By Ted - 14 Years Ago
|
|
yblockpinto312 (2/25/2011)
Tim: Ted: The more I read about this cam lifter thing, the more fear I have. I bought the cam and lifters off E bay, so i`m not sure what I`ve got. What worries me, is when I kicked that pushrod at Columbus. Was that the begining of lifter cam failure? Or did I just have brainfade when I set the valves? I`ve got 39 runs on the motor now, John Mummert thinks if it was going to fail, it would have by now. What do you guys think?Greg. I’m in agreement with John as if you’ve got a cam lobe and/or lifter problem in the making, it would be showing up by now. Just keep an eye on the lash and good notes on any adjustments that you have to make so that you can see if there is a trend with a particular adjuster.For everyone else, my experience has been if a lifter and/or lobe failure is going to happen due to defective parts on a fresh engine, it will start the minute the engine is fired up. It may take 15-20 minutes of running to get enough wear on the ‘bad’ parts to know that you have a problem though. By all means shut the engine off during the cam break-in period if something seems amiss rather than risk circulating an excess of metal throughout the engine.
|
|
By Ted - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Tim. Thanks for posting the pictures of the two lifter types. I’ll add that it’s not unusual to see the Ford supplied iron lifters with FoMoCo cast into them. Here’s a picture a factory iron lifter with the FoMoCo imprint. Steel lifters will be blank in that regard. 
|
|
By speedpro56 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Tim are you running the steel lifters with todays cams with no problems or do they need special cams just for them?
|
|
By Dennis K. - 14 Years Ago
|
|
To clarify, Ford tappets are not "chilled iron". Isky specifies those compatible with steel or hardface overlay camshafts only. Terminology such as Chilled Iron or Hardenable Iron are used by Isky and probably other aftermarket manufacturers. Link to Isky glossary: http://www.iskycams.com/glossary.php Regards, Dennis mctim64 (2/27/2011)
Here's a couple of pix. the "steel" ones have a thin looking base (left in top picture and second picture) while the cast "chilled iron" are thicker (right in top and third). I myself prefer the "Steel" but the Iron ones seem to hold up just fine and are quite hard.
|
|
By Dennis K. - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Re the "FoMoCo" or "cursive Ford oval" trademarks, that was an engineering change dated 10-27-58 and 11-24-58 respectively for the cast iron tappet. As Ted indicated, no trademark on the steel tappet. Regards, Dennis Ted (2/28/2011)
Tim. Thanks for posting the pictures of the two lifter types. I’ll add that it’s not unusual to see the Ford supplied iron lifters with FoMoCo cast into them. Here’s a picture a factory iron lifter with the FoMoCo imprint. Steel lifters will be blank in that regard.
|
|
By aussiebill - 14 Years Ago
|
Ted (2/28/2011)
Tim. Thanks for posting the pictures of the two lifter types. I’ll add that it’s not unusual to see the Ford supplied iron lifters with FoMoCo cast into them. Here’s a picture a factory iron lifter with the FoMoCo imprint. Steel lifters will be blank in that regard. Ted, i,ve mentioned it before, but i,ve allways used these lifters, refaced and never a problem. My mentor and well known ford engine builder, Bert Jones, RIP, allways used this type. Just my view. regards bill.
|
|
By mctim64 - 14 Years Ago
|
|
speedpro56 (2/28/2011)
Tim are you running the steel lifters with todays cams with no problems or do they need special cams just for them?Most of the cams I use are old core regrinds but I did use them on an E-4 here recently with no trouble.
|