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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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I need help selecting a cam for my '58 Ford Custom 300 292 Y-block engine. It is currently stock but I've changed the intake and carbs to a Ford 2x4 intake and dual 500cfm Edelbrock carbs. I've also upgraded to ignition system with a points-eliminator kit from Accel. I'm also thinking of upgrading to headers but have'nt found a decent source within my budget. It currently has dual exhaust. I was thinking of one of those thumpr cams but I'm not sure. I want that big cam sound but that is streetable. Any suggetions?
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By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
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What transmission, converter if automatic, rear gear ratio is in the car, Mummert has a selection of cams made for what you are looking for. Too large of a cam in a automatic will kill drivability without upgrades, and with 1000 cfm you will hate it.
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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It has a stock Fordo in it with stock gears and converter. I think they are 3.25's.
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By John Mummert - 14 Years Ago
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With the stock F-O-M you must be careful about the amount of duration the cam has. The engine must be able to idle at no more than 600 RPM in drive, 550 would be better. With the dual quads and a lumpy cam the stock torque converter just won't work. I discourage people from using any cam over 272 degrees advertised and 224 @ .050" with the F-O-M
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By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
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Maybe you should think about a transmission upgrade, The FMX will fit with the stock bell housing and redrilling 2 holes and you can get a better street converter, shift kits for the valve body, plus 3 forward gears in drive. If the 58 has a flywheel that is not part of the converter then the swap is even easier. Then your choice of cams gets larger. I am not trying to rain on your parade, but planning in proper stages will make the car fun to drive.
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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Thanks for all the input. Here are the numbers for the one I'm currenlty looking at. Would this be too much cam???
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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Thanks Gary. That might be what I'll have to do. I have everything out of the car already so should'nt be too hard. Here's what I got so far.  
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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That cam will probably not idle at the RPM John recommends. You can make it work. You'll need a performance converter, which I think is a bit of a custom thing for a Y, and possibly a different rear gear. It should sound good and will definitely be streetable.
I like the paint scheme.
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By PF Arcand - 14 Years Ago
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I'm not aware of any outfit that stocks a high stall converter for a Fordomatic. If they do it's never been mentioned here or in YBM as far as I know. So a custom would undoubtedly be expensive. The timing of that cam is quite a bit beyond what J. M. recommends.
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By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
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The trans will bolt up if you locate and drill the top two mounting holes in the transmission case. You can use the bellhousing to locate the holes. You can also use the FOM tailshaft and housing on the FMX and use the original driveshaft, mount, and speedo cable. If you do this, watch the gasket match in the lower corner, the FMX gasket will not seal the FOM housing. Either use the FOM gasket, or add a little piece of gasket material and some rtv sealer as required. You will also need a vacuum from the carb or from the manifold for the modulator on the FMX trans. Search FMX swap on this site for more information. This and any other information from John "The Hoosier Hurricane" is good since he has one in his 57.
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By mctim64 - 14 Years Ago
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That cam will make very unhappy with the FOM. Different trans and converter or different cam.
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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Is there a high stall converter available for the FMX???
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By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
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yes, several companies make them. Does your engine have the flexplate/flywheel that is not part of the converter? That is the first and hardest thing you need to find for the FMX swap. they were on the 59 and later y-blocks with an automatic. If that is not clear post a picture of the back of the engine on the stand.
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By marvh - 14 Years Ago
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There are high stall convertors for FMX.
The problem is the pilot on a Y block are one of its own so convertor selection is few, you have to use a Cruise-o-matic convertor and a cruise-o-matic front pump which has a lug drive not two flat spots as a FMX convertor. On a 58 you should have a cruise-o-matic transmission which is the welded convertor that bolts to a flexplate with the ring gear on the flex plate. Cruise-o-matics torque convertors have a stall speed of ~1800 RPM so is much to low for the camshaft you are using.
You can have these convertors modified but it costs money as they are special order. Another option is use a Bendtsen’s adapter and a C4 that has been modified to take the HP. I think JM sells a bell housing to adapt a C4 to a Y block also. Stock C4's are too weak, they are just a light duty transmission.
marv
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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Here's a picture of the back of the engine. I believe I unbolted the converter from the flywheel. Sorry I am unsure of the terminology. But what's a flexplate??? may sound like a dumb question. Sorry if its unclear in the photos. According to the badge on the car, the tranmission is a Fordo. 
Here's the trans still in the car. You can see the converter. 
If you look at the last photos I posted you can see the trans in the background of the second photo hanging from an engine hoist. It's painted black.
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By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
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Some times I cant remember my address. Flexplate is the flywheel for an automatic. The one you have on you engine. Flywheel usually means for a standard transmission/clutch/pressure plate. Marv is right about the size of the crankshaft pilot hole. If you order a converter for a FMX they can put a larger ring on the converter to make the converter work, or make a reducer ring to fit in crankshaft and on the converter pilot (the crown in the middle of the converter) on the FMX converter. The converter has to fit in that hole to stabilize it when engine is running. Hope I am making myself understood.
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By marvh - 14 Years Ago
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The transmission you have is a Cruise-o-matic. It is known as the dual range transmission with a D1 and a D2 on the gear selector indicator. The transmission will have a cast iron centre section bolted with four bolts to the bell housing. Cruise-o-matics had four studs on the torque convertors. The aluminum case Fordomatics had three studs on the torque convertors. The aluminum case Fordomatics were used in the 59's, just for info.
marv
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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On the gear selector there's a 1, 2, D. No D1 or D2. Could this still be a cruiso?
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By Glen Henderson - 14 Years Ago
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You have everything you need to do the FMX conversion, except the FMX, should be easy to find. That flywheel or flexplate is solid gold, they go for big bucks. Find a good FMX, order the torque converter that you need for you combination, then have a bushing machined that will bring the FMX converter snout up to the FOM size. By the way you will have to use the bellhousing from your current trans and possible the tailshaft housing depending on which FMX you get. Do a search, this subject has been covered in depth before. If you don't have experience with auto trans, this maybe one project that you call in some help on or farm it out to a trans shop. It is not complicated, but it hard to commuicate what you have to do in the limited space of this forum, or it is for me. I can show you, but it's hard to tell you in away that is easy to understand.
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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Thanks for the replys. I think I got everything figured out except for one thing. - So I know I will use my current bell and tail housings that way I don't have to change the driveshaft. - I will have to drill (2) holes into the FMX to attach the bellhousing - Have to use the gasket from the FMX for the tailhousing - I will need to hook-up a vacumn line The only thing I don't understand is the snout deal for the converter. If I'm using a FMX trans and FMX converter why does the converter need to be modified? Is it because of the flexplate from the FOM? Sorry I just want to understand this completely before I take a crack at it.
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By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
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If you look at the converter you have now, you will see the snout fits inside the back of the crankshaft when everything is bolted together. this hole is for the pilot bushing if the engine was hooked to a standard transmission, or the snout of the converter if an automatic is used. It helps support the front of the converter. The converter you have now has a larger snout than the FMX converter since it was used on a different engine. That is why you need a reducer ring machined for the crankshaft to make the FMX converter fit in that hole as it was intended. You don't have to drill the FMX transmission, when you bolt up the FMX transmission to your bellhousing TWO holes line up but two holes don't. You bolt up the holes that line up and mark the two that don't and drill the bellhousing. The transmission and maybe the engine in you car may have been changed at some time in the past. Do you have any history on the car?
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 14 Years Ago
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Easy: Two things in you list of things to do need clarified. First, you need the FOM tail housing gasket, not the FMX. Yes, you drill the FMX case for the top two bolts. There would not be a flat surface on the bell housing face in which to tap holes.
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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Thanks Gary. Now I understand. Should'nt be too hard to do for a novice. As for the history of the car, the only information I have I got from the badge numbers on the car. The car was given to me. The guy that had it was warned by the city for having junky cars in his front yard so he had to get rid of it.  It seemed to be the orignal engine/trans combo but you never know. Here's a picture of the trans that's currently in there. 
What do guys make of that cut-out in the bellhousing?
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By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
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Easy John - "The Hoosier Hurricane" is the expert on this subject, he can tell you anything you need to know about both transmissions. He has a FMX in his 57 race car and has done the swap on others as well. I was hoping he would chime in, I am working on memory. When you have questions in the future when you are doing the swap start a FMX conversion threat so others know the subject of you questions. Your off to a good start. keep us informed
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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Okay, so I got a little off topic. Let me get back to the cam questions. If I keep my FOM and use one of Mummert's 272* cams will I have better performance from the stock cam that's in there now? I did'nt really have any problems with my Fordo so I don't think it's smart to change it just for the sake of a cam.
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By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
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Thats what John Mummert recommends, he is an engine guy so he would know. Everyone that gave you their ideals is trying to keep you from becoming discouraged with you project. If it is a pain to drive you won't like it. There are some forum members that have fast street cars, but it is the whole package that make them fast and still fun to drive. Too much in any one area can kill the drivability. I am with you on the intake, multiple carburetors looks really cool even if it won't preform like one of the new aluminum intakes and a single holley. One thing about you car you can upgrade the transmission any time you want without taking out the engine. While you have the engine out look for any casting numbers on the block and any tags or numbers on the transmission. If you go to www.ford-y-block.com ,the tech area for lots of information on Y-Block. header in the works http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Topic59718-4-1.aspx
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By PF Arcand - 14 Years Ago
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Easy: All things being right, you should definately notice a difference in performance,with the 272 (advertised) degree Cam. Even his 265 degree Cam is a bit longer on duration & has more lift than the stock cams. Mummert is very familiar with Cam sellections for the Y-Blk. Ignore his suggestions at your peril! Personally, I'd likely go with the 265 on a Fordomatic. Note that most of the cams used in rebuilds in the past, are even milder than the 256 degree standard 1957 Cam.
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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Thanks Paul that's exactly what I was looking for. One question though, what's your justification for selecting the smaller cam when using the FOM?
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By PF Arcand - 14 Years Ago
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Easy: I didn't select that Cam. This is just pass on info. You'l notice that John says he discourages use of anything beyond the 272 degree cam. His Ads indicate the 265 as the best choice, with Fordomatic. But best discuss it with him. One person if I recall on this site, quite some time back indicated he wasn't totally happy with the choice of the 272 degree. But that's from memory and isn't guaranteed...
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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So, do you want the big cam sound or not? The smaller you get, the less of that you will have.
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By glrbird - 14 Years Ago
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Easy This is the reason the large duration cams wont work well with a stock FOM. The problem with large duration cams is the idle. With a stock converter that stalls around 1500 and a cam that has trouble idling at 800 or 900 RPM’s, everytime you put it in drive the engine will try to die. You may never get it to idle in drive. The torque at lower RPM’s with larger duration cams is low and makes it harder to get the car moving until it reaches higher RPM’s. Thats why you need the higher stall converter. Its not that it will not work, it will be very difficult to drive the car.
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By marvh - 14 Years Ago
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Another reason not to use a long duration cam with the original Fordo is that the car starts off in second gear unless you drop the trans shifter to low so will have a engine labouring problem.
This is the advantage of converting to a FMX as when in "D" they start in low then shift second then high.
marv
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By Don Woodruff - 14 Years Ago
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Im going to be a bit blunt here, do you want to sound fast or be fast? You can go faster with limited or no head work with a very mild cam. A "Large" cam kills low end torque and horse power and moves it to a higher RPM range. If your heads, intake , and exaust will not support the higher rpm range, you end up with a combination that has no top end or bottom end. It will be obnoxious to live with on the street. The FOM in stock form dictates the need for low speed torque. What you do to enhance performance should be keyed around this. I once built an engine for my Starliner that a 6 cyl scrub would run away from below 3500 rpm. 3500-7000 it would pass any thing but a gas station (about 6 MPG). It was barely liveable with a 3 speed O/D and 4.11 gears. I must be getting old but I would rather be fast than sound fast. Remember a new Mustang GT will run in the 12's off the showroom floor, and with about $3500 of improvement, push the 11 second bracket. There is no way you are going to be really fast with 60 year old technology. You can keep from being embarassingly slow.
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By easyissy - 14 Years Ago
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Thanks guys for all the input and thanks for puttin up with my dumb question. Now I better understand the foreign language of camshafts.
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By Y block Billy - 14 Years Ago
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If your in SO-Cal your in John Mummerts neck of the woods (or dirt of the desert since there's not many trees down there) It may be worthwhile to pay him a visit.
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