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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Greetings. I'm new to the forum. I'm just beginning the process of replacing the rear main oil seal. The oil pan is off and as I look at the two bolts on the rear main, it looks like they won't clear the lip to which the oil pan attaches, or is it just my imagination?
thanks,
Randy in Maryland
'59 Ford Galaxie Town Sedan
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By Barry L - 14 Years Ago
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Hi, welcome to the forum. Have you scraped off the pan gasket? Look for two bolts in the aluminum seal retainer....some are hex head socket bolts, some are 12 point bolts. Once you remove those two bolts you can wiggle or gently pry the retainer out. That gets you the easy lower half of the seal. Try the search function as this is a common problem with lots of tips on changing the seal....not an easy task and often not the hoped for results. I hope this was the info you wanted. Barry L
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By aussiebill - 14 Years Ago
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MDYblocker (7/20/2011)
Greetings. I'm new to the forum. I'm just beginning the process of replacing the rear main oil seal. The oil pan is off and as I look at the two bolts on the rear main, it looks like they won't clear the lip to which the oil pan attaches, or is it just my imagination?
thanks,
Randy in Maryland
'59 Ford Galaxie Town SedanMight help to check down previous topiC, DAMN OIL LEAK . Damn oil leak thread
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By Ted - 14 Years Ago
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The main cap bolts are close to the rear seal retainer but do clear assuming you’ve got all the original parts and some haven’t been switched out in the past. If the seal retainer sits level with the pan gasket surface of the block, then just take a feeler gauge and insure that the main cap bolts are indeed sitting just below the retainer to be on the safe side. It’s important that the seal retainer fits securely to the block without interference issues or there will be an oil leak between the seal retainer and the block itself. And welcome to the site!
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Is there another panel I need to remove, or is removing the oil pan all that is required? Looks like there's a panel that runs from the block to the torque converter.
Randy
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By Talkwrench - 14 Years Ago
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?? Do you mean the inspection plate ? its only a few bolts take it off it easier to work with if not there.
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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I removed the plate, which revealed the torque converter, but saw that it slightly overlapped where the oil pan attaches. Removed some old gasket material and found what I was looking for. Now to find the right socket to get in there.
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Looks like I have to grind down a socket to be paper thin to loosen the bolts in the seal cap. Is that 3/8 or 5/16?
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By Talkwrench - 14 Years Ago
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If like mine [292] should be a 3/8 12 point socket, if you can get a 3/8 drive no probs;;
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Sounds good. Thanks.
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Yes, I'm moving slowly, but I'm getting there. I removed the oil seal cap. Now to loosen the main bearing caps. Except the first one I tried doesn't want to break loose. I'm afraid I'll snap the bolt. I'm using a 1/2-inch breaker bar with a 4-foot pipe for leverage. Any suggestions? Heat? Cold? Penetrating oil?
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By Talkwrench - 14 Years Ago
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STOP!! why are you touching the main BEARING cap ? your just doing the seal ? Just the seal cap you take off. Have a look at Teds info this will help. http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2008/09/10/neoprene-rear-seal-installation-for-the-y-and-others/
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By aussiebill - 14 Years Ago
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Well, I loosen the caps and crank will hang down a tad to help with cleanup prior to installation, doesnt hurt. How is your oil leak going since replacement.
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By Ted - 14 Years Ago
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The torque on the main bolts isn’t expected to be much over 100 lbs. But I’d try removing the old upper half of the rear main seal first without dropping the crankshaft down a bit. If you do drop the crankshaft, then you’ll need to loosen at least the #2 thru #5 main caps to do this. Just loosening the #5 cap will not gain you much if anything. You might mention if you have a rope or neoprene seal currently in the engine as that will dictate to some degree how much work you are in for and also any special nuances that may be involved in removing the seal you’re dealing with. And here's another link to the same rear seal installation article on another site. (Gil's Garage). https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/Neoprene.php
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By stuey - 14 Years Ago
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i've just been playing with a newly built Y and had to release the crank the main bolts were done to 110ft/lbs but the reading on the old Snapon torqometer was nearly off the scale (175ft/lbs) when they let go with one hell of a crack. and i know i'm not supposed to use tork wrench to undo but it gives a clue to original torque but not in this instance. if you do release all main caps don't forget aligning centre thrust bearing. best of luck stuey England
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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It has a rope seal. I'm replacing it with a neoprene seal. I suspect I'll never replace the upper seal without loosening the crankshaft a tad. At least that's what I've read.
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By Talkwrench - 14 Years Ago
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Why dont you just try screwing a long scew into it and pull it out with pliers as someone is turning the crank, thats all I did , it took a few goes at it . Was better than the sneaky Pete..
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Got the bolts loose on the main bearings. I did them all. I like the idea of attaching a screw to the seal and pulling it through as someone cranks it around, but am I taking a chance with the mains loose?
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Major success! Put a screw in the old rope seal and clamped a small vise grip to it. Put a wrench on the crank pulley and worked the two together. Old seal came out in about 5 minutes. Ran inside and checked Ted Eaton's article on how to correctly install new neoprene seal and that was in 5 minutes later. I'll get some copper sealer tomorrow and close it up. I'm going to replace the oil pump seals while I'm at it. Any hints about removing the oil pump? In the meantime, thanks to all for the advice.
I picked up my '59 Galaxie Town Sedan in March. I bought from the granddaughter of the original owner. About 10 years ago, she and her husband hauled it to Virginia from Iowa where it had been sitting in a barn. Only 60,700 miles on the odometer. They intended to restore it, but never did. After rejuvenating the gas tank, installing a new fuel pump, rebuilding the carb, doing all the wheel cylinders, the master cylinder, and freeing a stuck valve, I finally got it on the road. Then the oil seal let loose. Hope to be cruising again in a week.
Randy
Maryland
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Did the job, put it together, started it up.....oil leaked. Ninety percent sure it's from the rear oil seal. I'm going to redo it. I've been reading about the Graph Tite rope seal which apparently seals irregularities pretty well. Anyone have experience with it? Where can they be purchased? I used the Fel Pro rubber seal this time.
Randy
sorely disappointed in Maryland
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By Talkwrench - 14 Years Ago
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When you get to pulling it apart let us know what you find, may give an insite to what went wrong when I did mine. I did mine with Felpro too. Did you offset the seals or did you put them in flush with the cap and block?
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By Ted - 14 Years Ago
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Randy. Sure hate to hear that the oil leak is still there. Here are some questions for you. How did the seal surface on the crankshaft look? Pitting on that crankshaft seal surface seems to crop up on engines that sit a lot and those pits can be a real problem with a neoprene seal. Were you able to successfully remove all the old rope seal from the block side of the groove? Any residual seal material there can also be a problem when putting a new seal in place. Are you using the studs at the rear seal retainer for the oil pan retention or two bolts? When you tear back into it, be sure to post anything you find that may be the contributing culprit.
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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Make sure it's not coming from the cam plug.
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Tell me where to look for the cam plug? Do I have to drop the pan? If it's not the cam plug, is the advice to wait and see what I find before purchasing a replacement seal?
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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You don't have to drop the pan. It is on the back of the block, directly above the rear main. You might be able to see well enough in there with a flash light and mirror. The flywheel pretty well blocks it.
There are also two oil galley plugs on the lower driver side of the block which are also blocked by the flywheel. See if you can get a good view of those, too.
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By aussiebill - 14 Years Ago
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Ted (8/4/2011)
Randy. Sure hate to hear that the oil leak is still there. Here are some questions for you. How did the seal surface on the crankshaft look? Pitting on that crankshaft seal surface seems to crop up on engines that sit a lot and those pits can be a real problem with a neoprene seal. Were you able to successfully remove all the old rope seal from the block side of the groove? Any residual seal material there can also be a problem when putting a new seal in place. Are you using the studs at the rear seal retainer for the oil pan retention or two bolts? When you tear back into it, be sure to post anything you find that may be the contributing culprit.Those replacing rope seal in car with neoprene seal should take note of Teds main points here, i have tried before here to also highlite those facts but seems the leaks persist. Ted mentions the 2 seal retainer studs, often these are replaced by bolts and DO have a tendancy to leak. My advice is dont take what seems a shortcut and go pull the engine, remove the crank and do it properly once, also good time for bearing inspection. My 2 cents worth.
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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I'm pretty confident the rope seal came out cleanly. I was turning the crank pulley with one hand and pulling the screw I threaded in with the other. Once the rope started coming out, I put the vise grips on it and kept turning the crank. It slipped right out. I did not closely inspect the crank journal, but will relook when I go back in. What would be the recommended seal assuming the journal is pitted?
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By Oldmics - 14 Years Ago
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Randy Wherre are you at in Maryland? Oldmics/Glen Burnie
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By Ted - 14 Years Ago
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MDYblocker (8/4/2011)
..... What would be the recommended seal assuming the journal is pitted?If you do have pitting at the crankshaft on the seal surface, then some form of rope seal will come closer to keeping the oil in place. Here’s a picture of a 312 crankshaft with the aforementioned pitting. This pitting simply just chews up a neoprene seal very quickly.
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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Thanks for the picture, Ted. I hope to get back to the car this week. Second time around should go much easier.
Oldmics: I'm in Gaithersburg
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By MDYblocker - 14 Years Ago
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It took over 2 weeks for my online order from Napa to arrive. I ordered the rope seal. I figured if it is recommended when the crankshaft seal surface is pitted, it should be a good solution even it's not pitted. Now, where I was able to easily insert the inner neoprene seal while working under the car and without loosening the crankshaft, I'm finding it impossible to get the rope seal in. My last effort included tapering the end with electrical tape to start it in the groove and wrapping wire around the same end and snaking the wire through the seal slot to give me something to pull on while cranking the engine with the other hand. It appeared to be too much rope to get in that little groove. Any suggestions on inserting a rope seal? I'm ready to go back to neoprene. I need to get this car back on the road since I'm trying to sell it. You can see it at http://www.carcruiseguide.com/classified.html Scroll down to 1959 Galaxie.
Randy
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