Carb flat spot


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By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
Ever since I put a new Holly 390 carb on my 272 it has had a flat spot when accelerated. (I never liked Holly carburetors to begin with but my son talked me into it). Cruising at a constant position on the pedal when I accelerate it will fall on it's face for a second then accelerate normally. I went through my Holly CD & tried everything it said. I changed the cam position & made it worse. According to the CD it should be the squirter but after setting the accelerator pump as per Holly instructions, I changed the accelerator pump nozzle (squirter) from a 25 to a 31. That made it a little better but did not eliminate it. I changed that one to a 37 & no change, maybe worse. I put a vacuum gauge on it & it is rock solid at about 14" at idle so I don't think there's a vacuum leak. I looked down the carb & actuated the throttle & gas squirts out of both squirters from any throttle position. I checked my timing & set it @ 10 degrees. I'm at my wits end. I'm about ready to get an Edelbrock carburetor & start all over.
By junkyardjeff - 14 Years Ago
Try stepping up the jet size a little.
By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
Is your 272 stock? I think the vacuum should be higher if it is stock. 14 is about what I'd expect for a mild performance motor.
By speedpro56 - 14 Years Ago
Step the jet size up like Jeff said to about 4 numbers from stock. I believe you'll see an improvement like so many of us have. Holleys are known for easy tuning and in the end work great and usually better than the others and I've tried most of the them.
By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
Thanks guys..... Yep Charlie, stock as a rock 'cept for electronic ignition.
By Doug T - 14 Years Ago
So if your 272 is a '56 and "stock as a stone", does it still have the original '56 all vacuum distributer? If so the Holley will not provide the proper vacuum signal for it to function. Replace the Dist with a '57 dual advance dist and a lot of problems will go away.
By ALL AMERICAN RACER - 14 Years Ago
could be fixed by working with accelerator pump

Holley has a 'how to' on their website

guy said something about vacuum and distributor

yep you better eliminate everything else before

looking at accelerator pump

make sure it's working like it should

could be something obscure like

low float level etc. etc.
By oldcarmark - 14 Years Ago
I have the 390 Holley on mine and works great.I did go to 56 jets.I would do that and check the distributor.The vacuum reading at idle is low I think.Should be closer to 18-19 at idle in neutral.
By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
Doug T (12/10/2011)
So if your 272 is a '56 and "stock as a stone", does it still have the original '56 all vacuum distributer? If so the Holley will not provide the proper vacuum signal for it to function. Replace the Dist with a '57 dual advance dist and a lot of problems will go away.
Doug I said stock "except for electronic ignition"... Has a 59 distributor with a Mallory electronic kit. I'll try the jet thing & check Holly's website although I've got their CD for tuning & troubleshooting. Thanks again... Oh, I'll recheck that vacuum.. I may have misspoke on that.
By ALL AMERICAN RACER - 14 Years Ago
here's link

http://www.holley.com/TechService/FAQ.asp

it's just a paragraph in FAQ's

think it's question #3 there
By rick55 - 14 Years Ago
When you say that whilst cruising if you accelerate it dies then drives normally, how hard are you pushing the pedal. If the spring is too light in the vacuum dash pot which controls the secondary barrels it will bog down like this. That's what it sounds like to me.

Lock the secondary barrels off and see if it still does it. If not the problem is the secondary barrels opening too soon.

Normally a weak secondary sping will make the car pretty awful to drive anytime you open the throttle.

It doesn't sound like the accelerator pump is the problem.

A low float level might give something like the same, though it would be a tad gutless throughout the whole range and would probably misfire or surge when you open the throttle.

You also need to make sure that the secondaries are setup correctly. There was an earlier post about setting the throttle blades with relation to the idle transfer slot. Check that out as well.

As others have said the Holleys are a great carb and will rub sweet when set up correctly.

Regards
By oldcarmark - 14 Years Ago
Back to the jets.Have you changed the jets at all because I believe they come stock with an odball "512" jet which is too small for the bigger engines like the 292 272.These carbs are used on everything from 4 cyl pintos right up to 312 V-8.They purposely come with small main jets.Is your vacuum reading in neutral or park if an auto like mine which has about 14-15 in drive.19-20 in neutral.
By Ted - 14 Years Ago

Seeing as how you’ve tried a larger sized shooter, then try the ‘red’ cam for the accelerator pump actuation.  Before doing this though, I’d go ahead and try the #35 shooter first.  And I’m assuming the accelerator linkage is properly adjusted?  This means absolutely no freeplay in the accelerator linkage at idle and at full throttle there should only be 0.015” travel remaining before the diaphragm is bottomed out.  Fuel float levels are also players.  If they are on the low side, then the fuel pickup for the main system is delayed and the secondary float level is just as important as the primary float level in this regard.  There is a fixed idle circuit on the secondary side that requires the proper fuel level for it to work and this circuit helps in keeping the fuel from stagnating by using it as an idle circuit in those instances where the secondaries do not get used very often.

By GREENBIRD56 - 14 Years Ago
We've been through this a few times on here - the basics have to be right too. Big flat spot is always available if the Holley primary blade isn't at the right spot on the idle transfer slot. There is a thread with photos etc. and its easy to get it right. The idle speed then gets set with the secondary blade. I looked at the Holley directions for the 390 and it plainly shows how to do this. 

If you don't set it up, the old answer was always "flood it with fuel".

Make sure you distributor is set-up right. Needs to have plenty of low rev advance - which then requires a top end limit of 36°-38°(thats mechanical - vacuum blocked). Basic tuning rule is set up distributor, tune carb to suit.

If you use ported vacuum source for distributor - design the curve to start at 14° and end as above. If you use live manifold vacuum - use 10°, top end as above - and then limit the vacuum travel to about 7° max. Both set-ups will run well with stock engines.

By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
Man, this is a lot to digest & I'll bet the answer is here somewhere. Ted, I already tried 37 squirters & I think it may have been a little worse, maybe not, but didn't fix it. (I can look down in there and pull the throttle back & things look normal (engine off). If I am cruising & stab it to the floor it goes through that flat spot almost un-noticed. It's when you're cruisin' along, say 50 or 60 & just accelerate a little bit (normal, like you was going to pass someone) is where it's the worst. If accelerated very slow it will go through OK. Again, thanks a ton guys.
By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
ALL AMERICAN RACER (12/10/2011)
here's link

http://www.holley.com/TechService/FAQ.asp

it's just a paragraph in FAQ's

think it's question #3 there




Good site AAR, thanks..... !!
By joey - 14 Years Ago
GREENBIRD56 (12/13/2011)
Needs to have plenty of low rev advance - which then requires a top end limit of 36°-38°(thats mechanical - vacuum blocked). Basic tuning rule is set up distributor, tune carb to suit

This has been my experience too (albeit with a mildly cammed 312), that the culprit was ignition more than carb. Over time I tried several dizzy combinations...including a '57 setup with both vacuum and mechanical advance...and ended up with the Mallory which has been rock solid. Used one very light spring + one normal under the distributor plate. Result: 39 degrees overall (15 initial timing + 24 advance), but plenty of advance early in the curve. Eliminated my low-end flat spot.

By speedpro56 - 14 Years Ago
EJ, up the jet sive in the primaries and see if that fixes your problem, we had to do the same with the 570 avengers as well. It seems holley simply jets the 390's and 570's just too small on the primary side for 292 and 312 y-blocks which gives us those dreaded flat spots upon taking off and during cruising. Charlie had the same issues with his 570 and many other y-blockers had the same problems as well.
By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
speedpro56 (12/15/2011)
EJ, up the jet sive in the primaries and see if that fixes your problem, we had to do the same with the 570 avengers as well. It seems holley simply jets the 390's and 570's just too small on the primary side for 292 and 312 y-blocks which gives us those dreaded flat spotsupon taking off and during cruising.Charlie had the same issues with his 570 and many other y-blockers had the same problems aswell.




That will be my next move. Going to Atlanta the day after Christmas so will stop at Summit & get some. Somebody on here said 56's so I'll try that. Thanks guys...
By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
How long will you be in Atlanta?
By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
Just passing through Charlie, going to Stone Mountain for a day then to Pigeon Forge for a couple of days... I'll make time to stop at Summit though, I go right by it.
By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
Then we'll miss each other. I'm heading to Orlando for Christmas and have some stuff to take care of while I'm there. I probably won't be back until the following Wednesday.
By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
Have a great Christmas & be careful on I-75. It will be packed....
By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
Well I checked the jets in my carb & it says 512 on it. Went to Holley's website & I see nothing about what a 512 is. I didn't see a .xxx anywhere. Anybody got any idea what size a 512 is?
By fairlane bob - 14 Years Ago
A 3 digit number is a close tollarance machined jet ,so it's a # 51 jet.
By speedpro56 - 14 Years Ago
That should be 51s which are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to small. The 2 means their really close to each other in their flow rate. Move up to 56s and see if this helps those flat spots a bunch of us have experincedw00t. Let us know how it turns out, good luck.
By ejstith - 14 Years Ago
Thanks guys, I just ordered some 56's from Holley. I don't think we are going past Summit so I just ordered them....
By ejstith - 13 Years Ago
OK you guys are guru's. I finally got my jets & put them in. Viola! My flat spot is gone! It is so much more enjoyable to drive now. Thanks a ton!!
By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
I think I did mention back in the early posts that these carbs come from the factory with the oddball 512 jets.These carbs are used on everything from 4 cylinder Pintos up to 300 cid V-8's.Glad you got yours fixed up.As I mentioned I am happy with mine.
By speedpro56 - 13 Years Ago
Congrats on the carb fix.BigGrin
By ejstith - 13 Years Ago
You guys saved that Holley carb. It was on the verge of being history. I didn't like Holley's 50 years ago, preferred a Carter AFB from a Pontiac, so I was about to get an Edelbrock, but now it is fine, really good....Satisfied