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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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I just installed a Mr Gasket 180˚ High flow thermostat. I checked in a pot of water to make sure it was opening at the right temp. It worked perfectly.
I am finding however that the car runs at a cooler temperature than it did with my 170˚in the same outdoor temperature (170˚ also a high flow) . The engine barely gets up to 1/2 way on the temp gauge. It takes forever for the car to get up the operating temp. Its still cool here in Canada but relative to my 170˚ the car runs way cooler. I thought the 180˚ was to get the car to warm up more quickly and run at 180 minimum.
any thoughts
Thanks
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By pegleg - 13 Years Ago
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The 180 may not be closing correctly, or the 170 was not opening at the correct temp. Also might check and make sure the 180 is sealed up on the gasket correctly.
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By joey - 13 Years Ago
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The new thermostat has been tested and is opening up correctly at 180°. Maybe the old one wasn't opening up at the temp it should have. Do you still have it? In any case if everything else in the system is unchanged, the difference in temp must be with the thermostats, right? My water temp runs in the 170s on most days unless ambient temp gets really hot here in CT. When the weather gets 40° or so hotter in summer, the operating temp will go up some.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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If the outlet water temp is really 180° - and being regulated at that - then the gauge value you see doesn't mean much. Is the outlet housing running up to 180°? Infrared thermo tester available? The spec thermostat for a Thunderbird opens at 157° per the manual. Few of the large poppet thermostats are as good at moving water as the "Robertshaw" type - which the Mr Gasket is - your 170° wasn't quite like it was it? The old thermostat might not be as efficient at moving water as the new one Have you changed anything else? Larger fan or radiator size - blocked bypass hose (short one under the thermostat) - opened up RH exhaust thermal valve, stuck or wired it open - blocked heat crossover passages in the intake manifold? One big change I made to my outfit was getting rid of the old "Load-O-Matic" distributor and setting up the idle spark advance. The old system - with the 6° spec initial advance ran so retarded she was hotter than a firecracker. Dropped idle temperature immediately to go to 10° initial and 7° of vacuum advance (at idle).
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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The 170˚ thermostat was functioning properly as well. I checked it when I took out and compared to the 180˚. Does the thermostat stay closed until it reaches 180˚? I have noticed the upper rad hose starts to build pressure well before it gets it to 180˚. What is the optimum thermostat to run on a stock 312? I will wait and see what happens once we start getting warmer weather. I may go back to my 170˚ Nothing else was changed on the car except I had to replace Heater valve on the manifold due to it leaking.
Thanks
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By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
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It is getting to 180. The engine simply will not stay cool unless the thermostat is open and allowing coolant to pass through the radiator. You can verify the temp with an infrared or laser thermometer aimed at the thermostat housing.
The thermostat should not affect the time it takes to warm up. No matter what thermostat is installed, you still have the same volume of coolant to heat with the same fire.
I do notice that my Y appears to take much longer to warm up than the 305 in my Firebird. One significant difference that I notice is that the coolant bypass is in the block on the 305, and I presume all other sbc's. This would keep the coolant in the heads to get the combustion chambers heated up quickly and since the temperature sender is in the intake it registers warm, sooner.
You want at least a 180 degree thermostat. The hotter you can get it without boiling over, the better.
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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Hi Charley.
I am comparing the time it takes to warm up based on my 170˚. My 180˚ takes forever and it does not get up to 180. I did an experiment last summer.
I took off the rad cap, started up the car and let it get up to operating temperature. I put a BBQ meat thermometer in the rad. The coolant would get up to about 175˚and hold there at that temp. The temp gauge needle would be pointing straight up (midway point on the gauge) . I know this is bit primitive but at least it gives me an idea of the coolant temp as it comes out of the upper rad hose. I drove the car today. It was about 50˚ outside and temp gauge barely got to 1/4 of the way. If i drive the car close to an hour or so it will get closer to the 1/2 point (175˚) Again nothing has changed except for the Mr Gasket 180 Hi flow thermostat and the Heater valve. I have read that these Mr Gasket thermostats have had issues.
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By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
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The radiator is not the best place to check the temperature. The coolant has had a chance to cool some, particularly if you're getting the reading from the core. Since you checked the thermostat, and it is opening, it is at least 180.
"... and the heater valve"
is the valve in the same position as it was before - on or off? The heater core is a second radiator if coolant is now passing through when it was not before, it will take longer to warm up.
Another thing is you're comparing spring (it is still spring, right?) ambient temperatures to summer ambient temperatures. You will not get the same reading. My truck runs about 20 degrees cooler in the winter than it does in the summer, though if I check the temperature at the thermostat housing it's always at least 180 degrees (since I have a 180 degree thermostat installed). In the winter, my guage indicates about 160 and it is pretty accurate. The location of the sender will always result in a lower temp than that at the thermostat housing.
Did you perform the modification to the thermostat where 3 holes are drilled to help bypass more coolant? I'd think that will make it take longer to warm up. I did not do that to mine but I am considering doing like Steve did because I am in a warmer climate.
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By 46yblock - 13 Years Ago
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I had a similar result with a Robertshaw style 180 thermostat. Took forever to warm up to 180, like 15 or more minutes. Underway temps would not go above 160 unless driving 65 plus mph at 85 plus ambient, or standing still, or idling along in a parade. The Robertshaw was changed to a Delco Harrison a month ago. Similar issues, though it does look like the stat runs about 5-10 degrees warmer than the Robertshaw while underway. Temps have been verified, stats checked for opening closeing temps. No solutions here  .
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By slumlord444 - 13 Years Ago
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Never had a problem with my T-Bird running too cool. Wish I did.
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By pegleg - 13 Years Ago
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Nat, I realize you'll be able to tell from the heater how warm or cold the temp is, But I wonder if your gage is working right. Does the warmer temp you get seem to correlate with what you see on the gage? You might try putting both units in the pan at the same time and watching to see if they open at the same rate-time, or whatever. Again, make sre the t'stat is sealed in the housing. If the manifold is rusted out or pitted the water will bypass the thermostat.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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I think the same slow reaction - massive water flow - is being reported by all. The Robertshaw style of t-stat sold by Mr.Gasket, Milodon, and in the past by Prestone has a huge opening (pictured below) - the poppet is 1.50 inches in diameter and opens about 7/16 inches. Probably all made by the same supplier too. 
When I've done this test by "judiciously" heating it with heat gun on the bench - the wax filled "pill" that moves the poppet, doesn't exactly move at a high rate of speed. In the process of dealing with the overheating tendencies of the little bird - most of the "rapid warm-up" features on mine have been done away with or disabled. Because our weather is way different in southern Arizona - I just let it sit a little longer in the driveway on cooler days. It tends to run about 100°/105° over the outdoor ambient in a stationary idle test - and when the outdoor temperature is lower than 75°-80°, it runs at the thermostat setting. If its over a hundred degrees outside - like 105°- then 205°- 210° at the t-stat housing.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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I had a similar experience as Nat with the 180 Mr. Gasket thermostat.Took forever to warm up.Thought it was defective so I got a N/C replacement.Put it in and same thing.Went back to the conventional 160 stat which works as it should.Minimum operating temp is 160.Gets up to about 195 in hot weather.I dont know why the Robertshaw type dont seem to work properly on every installation.Any other ideas? Something else I wanted to mention.The temp here in Southern Ontario is around 50F or so.My 56 runs SO much better in these temps as oposed to 75-85 in the summer.I was trying to get a decent idle in drive last summer and never really did despite readjusting idle mixture on the carb.Right now with the cooler weather its great.I guess all the junk in todays gas is the cause?
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By slumlord444 - 13 Years Ago
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I am convinced that a lot of problems are due to the quality of gasoline that we have today.
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By Riz - 13 Years Ago
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I also just replaced the thermostat from a 160 to a 180. Replaced the sending unit and on the gage it never seems to make it beyond 140. But as mentioned checked the thermostat housing and manifold inlet with an IR thermometer. I am wondering if the gauge just is tired it seems to bounce a little as well. The engine seems to be up to temp, but not reading. My sending unit is in the drivers side rear of the head, just wondering if that may be a little cooler, or the gauge. I am just wondering from a lot of the posts about this if the life of the gauges is about 50 years and then gets tired.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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I have a mechanical temp gauge with sender unit in the intake behind the stat housing.I also have the original temp gauge in the head.Both work in unison.Minimum temp is 160 which is the stat rating.My problem with slow warmup is the stat(Robertshaw type) not the gauge.So my question still is why does the repacement stat seem to work well for some where others find slow to warm up and operating temp is low?
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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Mark - I must be growing an even thicker skull in my old age - are you saying that the 180° Robertshaw thermostat runs a lower temperature than the 160° version? - or are you saying that its reaction speed is such that the temperature varies below the setting more so than the 160°? When I went up to the 180° stat in my outfit - the min stable temp went up 15°-20° (over the 160°) - and yes it takes a few minutes to get there (the blocked bypass hose and extra holes in the t-stat does that).......but the outlet temp at the thermostat housing never drops to something lower than 175°-180°. Mike was saying above that he actually got one to drop below t-stat temp by 40° and I've never seen that on mine, the radiator is just too small.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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Hi Steve! Both stats I put in never really even hit 150 on the gauge.It was like not having a stat at all.As I said I thought the first was defective but it was the same with the second.I checked it on the bench with a heat gun and it opened and closed fine.Just would not work for me in the car-same problem Nat had with his.Went back to the standard 160 and it opens at 160 after warms up.
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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If the temperature sending unit is located in the original threaded hole at the back of the drivers side cylinder head, then the temperature reading will be shy by about 10°-15°F than what actually gets into the radiator. That’s simply due to the water not being fully heated at that point as it still needs to complete the path to the front of the head before exiting the engine to the radiator. If wanting a more accurate engine temperature reading, then the temperature sender will need to be directly behind the thermostat or the point just prior the coolant leaving the engine.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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I have the mechanical gauge plugged into the intake just behind the stat housing.Once the stat opens my gauge is reading minimum 160 which is where it should be with the 160 thermostat.
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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Hey guys. I thought I would follow up on my findings. The 170˚ I had in my car was actually opening at 190˚ even though it is clearly stamped that it is a 170˚. I re-tested it in a pot of water on the stove. That explains why the car heated up quickly even in cool weather. The car never overheated and ran at about a mid gauge reading. As for the 180 hi-flow I have in there in now I feel is working too efficiently. It takes forever for the car to get up to operating temperature. I will try and get my hands on Infrared temp sensor to verify what the temp its actually running at. I am thinking maybe getting a 180˚ regular flow thermostat maybe something to try. Perhaps that will slow down the amount of coolant exchange.
Thanks all.
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By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
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Thermostats don't seal perfectly. I wonder if the high flow lets more coolant by than a standard unit when closed. That's the only way I can think of that it would take a different amount of time to bring the same volume up to temp with the same heat output - if some coolant is actually passing through the radiator. Am I missing something here?
I am interested to hear how a standard flow of the same temp compares.
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By 46yblock - 13 Years Ago
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Is it possible the Robertshaw style has a thinner flange than others, allowing it to lift off seat and pass coolant even with the poppet closed?
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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I believe the coolant begins flowing at high rate shortly after starting the car. The upper rad hose begins to firm up shortly after start-up well before the car even gets warm. I think thats the only explanation.
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By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
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If it's opening well before the thermostats rated temp, or that much coolant is simply getting by, then something is not operating correctly. Maybe you should double check the high flow unit in a pot of water.
Is it possible that the gasket tore between the bypass and thermostat portion?
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By DryLakesRacer - 13 Years Ago
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I too have been fighting what maybe an overheating problem. The engine (292) has 1500 miles and the new 160 thermostat I put in when I added a heavier duty radiator never seemed to settle down. It would continously move higher then lower then if I was stuck at a few lights it would go over 3/4's of the needle and not come back. I guessed it was following the opening and closing of the stat. It was not a high flow by what I learned here. This weekend I changed it to a Mr. Gasket high flow for a Chrysler product. When testing, it started to open at 155 and was full open by 170. I put it in the engine and it now heats up a little slower but is steady at mid point of the stock guage slightly moving if stopped at a light but never going over 1/2 way. My 1956 does not have the shield which divides the engine compartment from the grille area by sealing at the hood. After changing the stat I made a flat cover to blank off the area right in front of the rad to the hood latch area.(25"x5") I was thinking the radiator was pulling hot air from under hood especially while idling and not through the grille. I put a similar plate on my sons 1/2 mile dirt Super Stock car because air was going over the slightly slanted rad. It fixed his problem. My question, has anyone out there ever done this and should I look for a divider shield ? I could not find a shiled listed in my illustrations and referance manual........Thanks
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By HT32BSX115 - 13 Years Ago
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charliemccraney (5/8/2012)
Thermostats don't seal perfectly. I wonder if the high flow lets more coolant by than a standard unit when closed. That's the only way I can think of that it would take a different amount of time to bring the same volume up to temp with the same heat output - if some coolant is actually passing through the radiator. Am I missing something here?
I am interested to hear how a standard flow of the same temp compares.
Charlie, can the bypass be part of the problem here? Maybe it needs to be throttled back a little.....
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By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
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I wouldn't expect it to be since it should be the same as it was with the other thermostat. But yes, the bypass can play a part in some instances.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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Dry Lakes Racer - Try throttling your bypass hose and see how that works for you - a 3/8 brass pipe plug with a 3/16 hole will do it. That bypass is a port - three inches long and the size of a garden hose - running right past your radiator and it is very efficient as it connects directly to the suction side of the pump.  Another item that works - besides the free flow thermostat - is a smaller diameter pulley to move more water. Shown is a 302 single groove - used with a one inch spacer to place it in line with the y-block parts.
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By DryLakesRacer - 13 Years Ago
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Thanks Green...sound like the plug is just placed in the hose preferably near the pump end? As I understand you the 5/8" hose bypass lets hot water coming out of the intake manifold go right back into the pump and thru the engine without going thru the radiator.........right....Seem like I would have read this before.In my GM "C" brand we would drilla 1/8" hole in the thetmostat for a bypass.....
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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Dry Lakes Racer - you are correct - the bypass hose is simply a fixed displacement short circuit. The 3/8 pipe plug is too big to pass out of the hose in either direction - the 3/16 orfice hole is an air bleed to let bubbles out of the water pump when you shut the engine down. Its easy to try out and easy to fish out if you don't like what it does. I've got three 3/16 bypass holes drilled in my 180° thermostat -because of where I live. It makes warm water migrate toward the thermostat and rad immediately on start-up.
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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Hey guys.
I ended up replaccing the 180˚ Hi Flow Robert Shaw style thermostat with the typical 170˚ Hi flow thermostat that I got from Casco. The car is running great. It gets up to temperature quickly and runs cool even the very hot and humid weather we are experiencing in Ontario. The car runs at mid gauge even in stop and go city traffic.
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By DryLakesRacer - 13 Years Ago
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Greenbird and all...Went 40 Ford Day in Anaheim today which was a good test for stop and go driving in 90 degree weather. (always hot near Disneyland) The 3/16" hole in the bypass seems to have definately changed the running of my Vic. A little slower to warm up (?) which I don't mind but right up to middle on the stock gauge and stays right there after 160 therm gets everything the same temp. The 40 Ford Club in So Cal is pretty big and brings out a lot of cars each year to La Palma Park. We had 2 55 Crowns, a 57 Farlaine 500 post, 57 post with Paxton blower, 56 and 58 2 door wagons, 3 early T-Birds, and my Vic all with Y-Blocks. A real nice 61 Sunliner with an FE and a 63 Galaxie 500 fastback with an FE. There were over 100 40's along with some other late 40's and early 50's FOMOCO's. Talked to a lot of other 55/56 owners without cars there and all said the same thing about there is not enough of them out and about..Told them about the site and hope they join up unless they are hiding...Now I think I'll start looking for the A/C the wife would like.....................JD
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