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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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I have a 56 Ford F100 that I bought with no engine. I wanted to get the best y block I could find locally to rebuild and put in it. So that leads me to today....there's a vintage/classic junkyard close to me that I wondered around today and I have a question about what I'm buying from him. He had a y block that was already out but using the handy tech info that I printed out from Y Block Guy's site before I went, the casting numbers showed it was a 272. So I moved on....he had (what he said was)a 1956 Ford Club Sedan with the y block still in it. I popped the hood and noticed it had a 4 barrel on it. I then noticed it had Thunderbird badges on the front fenders. What can you tell me about that engine? 292 or 312? My friend seems to think there's a good chance it could be a 312 but I'm thinking it's just a 292 for a couple of reasons....the casting number by the distributor is EDB with what looks like 17 above it. Also, I found a website that showed the "thunderbird" model sedans had 292's with holley 4 barrels. And I realize the only true way to tell is pulling it and checking out the crank flange or mains. I just know you guys are the gurus and might know if they ever put 312's in these cars or not. Also, the data plate was missing so no way to tell so far exactly what year the car is. I really appreciate anything anyone can tell me....it would be fantastic if it's a 312 but I'll be almost as happy if it isn't. I just need to find a set of G heads, good cam and headers to slap on it!!  Although, if I go with Mummert's site, it says that an EDB # if cast at Dearborn is a '57. So that means I might already have G heads right?  |
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By bergmanj - 13 Years Ago
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Nighthawk756, The heads will have casting marks actually showing "ECZ-G" if they are "G" heads; just look carefully. John Mummert's site has more information on crank marks for "312" crank; but, it is not "foolproof", as Ford is known to have "violated" their own common markings a few times. Only "sure" way is to remove heads and measure bore and stroke; also, can be "found" by removing pan, and looking at main bearing journal caps for "ECZ" casting marks. Though, if someone before has bored-out a 292 and ground-down a 312 crank to fit, that will not tell you either. "Stroke" will only define 312 factory crank and rods, bore will only define 312 diameter pistons. some engines have been known to be converted to 312 pistons, while still using the 292 crank and rods. Regards, JLB
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By NoShortcuts - 13 Years Ago
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....he had a 1956 Ford Club Sedan with the y block still in it. I popped the hood and noticed it had a 4 barrel on it. I then noticed it had Thunderbird badges on the front fenders.
What can you tell me about that engine? 292 or 312? I'm thinking it's just a 292 for a couple of reasons....the casting number by the distributor is EDB with what looks like 17 above it. I realize the only true way to tell is pulling it and checking out the crank flange or mains. Also, the data plate was missing, so no way to tell so far exactly what year the car is.
I really appreciate anything anyone can tell me....
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John Mummert’s web site lists the following block castings as being FoMoCo machined as 292s or 312s depending on the main bearing caps used. I assume that the same sand cores were used in making the water jacket/cylinder walls on these engine blocks if they were machined for either cylinder bore.
1956: ECZ-6015-A
1956/1957: ECZ-6015-B
1957: ECZ-6015-C
1958/1959: EDB-6015-E
1959/1960: B9AE-6015-F
1962-1964: C2AE-6015-C
Sooo…. In a salvage yard, getting to the pan or crank flange can be... difficult. I've pulled a cylinder head and measured the cylinder bore because of the difficulty of accomplishing the other without the yard owner’s help.
Regarding cylinder heads, the identifying casting numbers on many y-block are located adjacent to where the front most and rear most bolts secure the intake manifold to the cylinder heads.
Y-block equipped vehicles have gotten OLD. Over the last 50+ years, cylinder heads, exhaust manifolds, intake manifolds, engine blocks, and whole engines have been moved from one vehicle to another for all kinds of reasons. Unfortunately, you really can't depend on the vehicle data plate to KNOW what’s in front of you. Along the same line, the Thunderbird badges you mentioned might mean the '56 has a 312 engine... if somebody like me didn't install them on the fenders at an earlier time. 
Welcome to the site. Hope this helps.
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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Thanks for the quick replies guys! Plenty of good info!  Been reading up on Mummert's site again and I caught this little nugget....EDB 292 cu in. V8 1957 if cast at Dearborn foundry. EDB found near distributor and generator. And he also writes....Dearborn block I.D. numbers near distributor and above generator. My numbers are by the distributor, (as his site suggests for a dearborn) and have a number that looks like 17 above an EDB with no dash or anything following it. And according to his site pictures and text, that would make it a Dearborn. So, I'm getting really excited that this is a '57 dearborn that should have G heads. But we'll have to wait and see....keeping my fingers crossed!
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By Doug T - 13 Years Ago
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Sorry to disagree but back in the day I had a '56 car with the T Bird emblems on it. It was an original car and definitely had the original engine with a TeaPot Holley. It definitely was a 292. 272's had the YV 8 a'la my avatar. 312's were relatively rare in '56
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By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
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Doug T is correct about the T-Bird fender emblems, often indicating a 4 Bbl 292. This was true in Canada also. Someone in the U.S.A. researched this and found that only about 17% of 1956 regular cars had 312s. Early in the year T.Birds, Merc's & official cars got priority before regular cars.
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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Yeah, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's a 292. And I'm good with that, especially if it turns out to be a Dearborn '57. 
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By Glen Henderson - 13 Years Ago
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Don't get hung up trying to find a 312, a good 292 block will make a nice engine. Even the 272, if the block is good can make a nice package. I replied to your PM, I need to get with you and find out where this junk yard is located. I also have a complete 56 292 that might interest you.
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By John Mummert - 13 Years Ago
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I always hesitate before saying always or never when it comes to Y-Blocks. However, I have never seen a Dearborn 312. Every 312 I have ever seen was a Cleveland block. In fact, even the Dearborn 292's (EDB near distributor) are fairly rare. The vast majority of Dearborn blocks were 272's in 55-56-57.
Dearborn blocks were not made after 1957.
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By NoShortcuts - 13 Years Ago
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PF Arcand (5/10/2012)
Doug T is correct about the T-Bird fender emblems, often indicating a 4 Bbl 292. This was true in Canada also. Someone in the U.S.A. researched this and found that only about 17% of 1956 regular cars had 312s. Early in the year T.Birds, Merc's & official cars got priority before regular cars.
Correction noted! Thanks for catching that for me Doug and the additional info, Paul. Appreciated... still learnin'!
Regards,
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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John Mummert (5/11/2012)
I always hesitate before saying always or never when it comes to Y-Blocks. However, I have never seen a Dearborn 312. Every 312 I have ever seen was a Cleveland block. In fact, even the Dearborn 292's (EDB near distributor) are fairly rare. The vast majority of Dearborn blocks were 272's in 55-56-57.
Dearborn blocks were not made after 1957.Thanks John....yeah I'm not holding out hope that it's a 312. But I'm still pretty excited about the EDB casting....I'm hoping it's one of those "rare" ones. I'll be picking it up Monday since the salvage yard owner finally got it pulled out for me. Hopefully by Tuesday I'll be able to post some pics of it and the casting #'s after eyeballing it better.
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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Well, got the engine today. Casting numbers are 17 above EDB above DIF by the distributor. Also EDB by the generator....which reading Mummert's site said with that, it should be a '57. The main number is EDB-6015-A. But the heads have ECZ-B casting numbers which is a '56 number for 292's and 312's.
Got a line on a long block that "supposedly" is the original motor out of a '57 Fairlane....some Fairlanes in '57 had 312's But at the very least it should have G heads. So I'll be getting it probably, can't pass it up at 100 bucks. It's be worth that for the heads alone.
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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Ok gurus, I've got one for ya....the "57 Fairlane" motor that I went and looked at is a 272. It's an ECG Dearborn casting but the heads are the later 5752-113 heads. Was that a common thing back then to swap heads for performance? What can you tell me about the 113 heads? Looks like they have the same larger valves as the G's but different cc.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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The 113's are worth having - big intake valves and they are "posted" - have the re-inforced chamber deck. Milling them flat would deal with the 3 cc's difference.......
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By The Master Cylinder - 13 Years Ago
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If it is a '57 you should have gotten some "high lift" rocker arms with it also... unless those have been changed out too. Never know what you'll get with these old bad boys after all these years.
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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Ok, did more research here on the forums regarding the 113 heads....seems that a hundred bucks for the longblock with the 113's is a good deal. So I'm going to snatch it up. These quotes from the two main gurus sounded promising.... John Mummert (3/25/2010)
By less desirable I mean any head other than ECZ-G, -113 or -471. These are the only heads with a good lower port.and.... Ted (3/26/2010)
grovedawg (3/25/2010)
Am I reading that right that all C heads are less desirable?As John brings up, using the ECZ-G, 113, or 471 heads are the more desirable head castings in which to start with for any kind of serious performance.
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By Glen Henderson - 13 Years Ago
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Welcome to the wonderful world of Y blocks Brad, you can't believe some of the mismatchs that guys on this forum as well as myself have found. You have to remember that some of them are almost 60 years old and no telling how many times parts or engines have been swaped around. One thing that you have to learn is that there is no such thing as a bad y block for $100 and that everyone out there thanks that the one he has came out of a 57 tbird. No telling how many times I have heard that one, by the way the 113 heads are a good score. I'm back home again, so fill free to call anytime.
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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Thanks Glenn, I may call you tonight. Does the intake casting number tell you anything about what year intake it is? Haven't really found specific references to intake casting numbers. Guess the block or head references may work just as good. Going by them it could be 56 or 57. 58 or 59 if it was a truck intake. The intake number is ECZ-9425-A
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By John Mummert - 13 Years Ago
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The ECZ9425A is a 1956 4bbl. The heads are 56 also so it is possible that there were some EDB blocks made in 56. Try to find the date on the side of the block near the generator.
Dearborn date codes are a little weird but the first number should be the year. It will be interesting to see if it is a 6. I only list the EDB Dearborn blocks as 57's because all of them I've seen were 57. Doesn't mean they couldn't have made some in 56.
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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John Mummert (5/15/2012)
The ECZ9425A is a 1956 4bbl. The heads are 56 also so it is possible that there were some EDB blocks made in 56. Try to find the date on the side of the block near the generator.
Dearborn date codes are a little weird but the first number should be the year. It will be interesting to see if it is a 6. I only list the EDB Dearborn blocks as 57's because all of them I've seen were 57. Doesn't mean they couldn't have made some in 56.Yeah, me and a buddy of mine were contemplating that today....that maybe it was a very late 56, hence the EDB DIF block and B heads. Well, I was certainly hoping it was a 57 but it'll still be a great base to build from. Guess I can chunk the intake and get ready to buy one of yours John.  John, would that number be below the EDB-6015-A that's next to the generator? I'll have to scrub the block more to see it better but there's a number that looks like 59W:4 that's below the EDB number. That same number is also on the heads. It'll be this weekend before I can look at it again. Tomorrow I'm headed to Pigeon Forge for the rest of the week for the F100 SuperNats and the Good Guys show in Nashville on Saturday. John and Glenn and everyone else, thanks a ton for putting up with me and helping me out with this stuff. I'm new to the Y block stuff but I think I'm in love. Just something about these things entrigues me.
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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Well, there's one upside to this motor....checked and it has high ratio rockers!! I was pretty excited to see that ECG-6564-A2 number on 'em!
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By mctim64 - 13 Years Ago
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Bonus! Worth the price of admission right there.
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By Nighthawk756 - 13 Years Ago
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Finally got time to head over to the shop and pull the pan today. EBU main caps....so she's a 292 as we all kind of figured. Just wanted to update the thread. Now moving on to ordering that 331 stroker kit from Mummert!
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By 69supercj - 13 Years Ago
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Good luck with it.
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