|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Hello Experts,
I bought a 55 restoration project a couple of months ago and it supposedly has a factory Ford remanufactured yblock crated engine.
The story is that this happened in the 70's and the engine has never been turned over.
If I post some pics I was wondering if the forum can help me:
1. validate the story
2. ID the engine, heads and intake
3. help me decide what I should do with the engine
Thanks All.
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
|
ok, trying to navigate the picture posting process.
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
test
|
|
By MoonShadow - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Check out John Mummerts site at: http://www.ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm and http://www.ford-y-block.com/cylinderheadchart.htm to ID your heads and block. And welcome to the site! Chuck
|
|
By bird55 - 13 Years Ago
|
congrats on the bird purchase (my fav year but I'm prejudice that way )
your pics shows up but you'll have to be more specific with ?'s
I wouldn't be to overly nervous about the rebuilt engine.
The forum can help you check #'s on the heads and block and get it up and running. Unless you're are going for a 300 pt concours resto chances are the engine you have is going to be OK. It just depends on what you want it be for the money you spent.
You can search and find several suggestions about how to get one checked and ready to start up after sitting like that. If you can't we can help you thru it.
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Thanks for the greetings, I have more pics I'm trying to post and the questions will follow.
Thanks for your patience.
|
|
By bird55 - 13 Years Ago
|
On Mummerts site you can find where the casting numbers are located on the block and heads. Head #'s are harder to see. Technically that year of engine should have freeze plugs in the ends of the heads. But that's only if it's original. Again not a deal breaker because those heads aren't ideal anyway, just if your are going for "correct".
If that engine is rebuilt it may have an engine tag on it somewhere too.
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
There we go, still not sure how it happened but I was able to post a pic of the block tag.
Can anyone decipher the code?
Thanks all.
|
|
By bird55 - 13 Years Ago
|
Head #'s from Mummerts site
55 ECK-B 292 1.78" 8.1 - 193 4 bbl 55 T-Bird
55 ECK-C ECL-C 292 1.78" 8.5 y 198 4 bbl 55 T-Bird, Mercury & ECL-B
Block #'s www.ford-y-block.com
ECH 292 cu. in. V8 1955
ECJ 292 cu. in. V8 1955
ECL 292 cu. in. V8 1955
ECK 292 cu. in. V8 1955-56
|
|
By Glen Henderson - 13 Years Ago
|
|
About all the tag tells me is that it most likely has a 10/20 crankshaft. We need the block, head and intake casting numbers to tell you more.
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
thanks Glen, I thought since it was a reman block the tag had something to do with the bore and crank.
Block is cast ecz-6015-a
Which means I'll need to check the main caps for 292 or 312 ID
left head reads c0ae
right head reads c1ae
Would it be uncommon to build an engine in this manner?
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Thanks for advice bird55. If you have any parts for sale maybe we can compare lists.
Engine bay
|
|
By pops - 13 Years Ago
|
Welcome aboard WoodDean. You will find plenty of knowledgable help here. Not from me, but from others. 
|
|
By Daniel Jessup - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Once you dig into it, let us know what you find, but Glen is dead on concerning the crank grind, and I would go further to say that .0425 is the bore. I believe that I have heard more than a few find that size bore/rings in their Ford remanufactured block. How to decipher the numbers in the upper left hand corner, I have no idea. I am sure they represent the date code for remanufacturer... Nice bird!
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Thanks Dan,
any ideas on the head configuration?
"left head reads c0ae
right head reads c1ae
Would it be uncommon to build an engine in this manner?"
And I guess the other question I have is: Did reman engines from Ford include the heads?
|
|
By slumlord444 - 13 Years Ago
|
|
I had a thread here a while back about the .o425 312 pistions. Have a set in the 312 I am currently rebilding for my Bird. Bought the pistions from Ford in '69. Called Hastings and they put together a set of .050 over rings for me which only require some minor file fitting to install. Have to call them. Not cagtaloged.
|
|
By Daniel Jessup - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Back in 1992 I actually met the guy who swore up and down that he had actually purchased Ford's last remanfucatured 292 that they had in stock (in the US, anyway). How much of that is true, I don't know, but the fella did run the shop at the Quantico Marine Corps Base. He put the engine in a 1955 F100. The "crate" engine he showed me did come with heads. At the time, I don't remember checking the heads numbers. C0AE and C1AE are close to being the same, I don't doubt that someone may have put those heads on there because that was what they had on the shelf at the time. I once bought a 292 (A C2AE block whic of course means a 1962 block) that was remanufactured by a large engine company like Jasper. It was a long block so it included the heads. The heads on that engine were ECZ-G from late 1957. This was their last 292 as well... but they did a good job on this one. I put that engine in my father-in-law's car and it will burn the radial rubber TURNING A FORDOMATIC. Yep, no one believes it until they drive the 55 Club Sedan, but it does. If it has been that long since remanufacture, i would tear into it and give it an inspection for sure. It will not hurt to freshen all those gaskets, check your tolerances with plastigage, etc. You stand to lose a whole lot more to lose by not doing that kind of work, for sure.
|
|
By Daniel Jessup - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Maybe one of the old Ford techs on the site can recognize that plate on the block that you took a picture of?
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Here's a pic of the date code:
61 means january 1956 i believe
Not sure what the J means
|
|
By Ted - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Dean. Welcome to the site. While the 61J casting date points heavily to 1956 as the year, the number and the letter are reversed from what is normally seen for date codes. Assuming the letter is still the month, then the date would be Sep 1, 1956. But because that scenario falls on a Saturday, then looking at the 1 as the month, the date becomes Jan 9, 1956 which falls on a Monday. This is more in line with block castings being done on a Monday thru Friday schedule.
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Thanks for the greetings Ted.
After gaining some education on the engine thanks to the forum, I'm off to the Ford nationals in Carlisle this morning.
Hopefully I can score some parts I need to put this thing back together.
|
|
By NoShortcuts - 13 Years Ago
|
First, welcome to the site, WoodDean! I agree with Dan J. about taking the engine apart and thoroughly checking it over. What follows is my experience with one remanufactured Ford y-block engine. I’m sure this is an isolated case, but it illustrates what can occur in the rebuilding world of authorized remanufacturers.
In the early '80s I disassembled and reassembled a remanufactured 312 before selling it. It was a 'long block' assembly: engine block, cylinder heads, oil pan, timing chain cover, valley pan, and oil pump. No intake manifold, distributor, or water pump.
The engine, purchased from the insurance company after a terminating fire at a Ford dealership, was remanufactured by a Ford Authorized Independent Rebuilder, had an official Ford Remanufactured logo in silver stenciled on the dark blue repainted engine block near where the starter would be located. The engine had not been fired since assembly.
All of the cleaning of parts was thorough and professional (cylinder heads, engine block, crankshaft, connecting rods, valley pan, timing chain cover). –Not sure, perhaps chemically tanked and then bead tumbled/blasted, but everything looked factory new!
All of the remachining of cylinder head surfaces, block deck surfaces, engine mains, cylinder bores, valves, valve seats, crankshaft bearing surfaces, connecting rod big ends and rebushed small ends, resurfaced and bushed rockerarms, looked very good. All dimensions and clearances that I checked were in spec. I was not performing a blueprinting operation, but a quality assurance check on the remanufacturer’s work.
The heads were ‘60s vintage with matching casting numbers and small intake valves. Several replacement iron valve guides had been installed.
The engine assembly included new FoMoCo oversize pistons; piston pins and rings; timing gears and chain; main, rod, and camshaft bearings; soft plugs; rockerarm shafts; camshaft; and oil pump.
I was satisfied and pleased with ALL of the above. No shoddy parts, work, or workmanship.
I did find three issues/problems that I corrected before selling the engine assembly:
- MIXED Rockerarm Ratios! Apparently someone didn't know that Ford made and used both 1.43 and 1.54 rockers between '54 and '64.
- MIXED Length Pushrods! Apparently someone didn't know that Ford used two different lengths depending on the year of the y-block cylinder heads.
- 16 USED Valve Lifters! Some of the used lifter faces were significantly concave! Assembling a remanufactured engine with these was criminal in my view! Perhaps new lifters weren't on hand and someone believed that solid lifters didn't wear! Perhaps the remanufactured engine would have lasted for the Ford 12,000 mile remanufactured warranty.
I had no Ford paperwork because of how this engine was purchased... I was to warranty the engine to the buyer. Concave lifter faces would have shortened the life of any new cam lobe they worked with.
The used and defective lifters made me glad that I had taken the time to go through this engine before selling it to anyone. My finding of mixed ratio rockerarms and mixed length pushrods underscores the importance of your rebuilder KNOWING the engine species you bring him to rebuild. Different year engines have nuances that may not be described in a repair manual.
Regards,
|
|
By Hoosier Hurricane - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Ted: I don't want to muddy the waters, but I have some steel casting plant experience. Firebrick lined furnaces do not like to be run through heat and cool cycles, it badly deteriates the brick lining. Many companies preferred to leave the furnaces running even when not in use. The fuel cost was less than the rebuild cost. Now, if the furnaces are running, why not cast parts 24/7, you could use staggered shifts and workdays to do this without paying overtime, which I'm sure the bean counters would have looked at. Bottom line, maybe the block WAS cast on a Saturday.
|
|
By NoShortcuts - 13 Years Ago
|
Adding to what John said, I worked in an iron foundry at one time. The furnaces were never shutdown except for firebrick relining. More to the point, our Monday to Friday foundry operation used weekend volunteer overtime to get product out when there was increased demand or to meet production schedules if we were behind because of sand conditioning or automatic molding machine problems during the normal work week.
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Cool story NoS and great advice.
Don't know why but I'm opposed to using the heads that are on the engine so I'm in the market for a pair of G's.
I scored a ECZ-9425-B intake for $50 today at the carlisle show.
Also bought a teapot carb.
|
|
By Ted - 13 Years Ago
|
|
John and NoS. No argument here. I realize that the furnaces are not shut down on a weekly basis but always assumed that the weekends were used to cast up other parts besides engine blocks. As a general rule, I always reverse engineer the date codes on the Ford blocks to the actual day of the week when I sonic test them and have only found one instance where a block date actually code fell on a Saturday or for that part a weekend. That particular ‘one off’ date actually falls in a time period after a Ford strike in the Sixties which I surmised was an attempt to catch up on production. If I didn’t have such an extensive record of code dates for blocks, I would not have been able to even think of such a possibility but because there are several hundred sonic sheets here with the pertinent information, I can at least make an educated guess. I’ll not rule out that the guy actually putting the code dates in the molds for the blocks didn’t work weekends but with quality control being what it was, it’s doubtful. Maybe some of those guys over on the FE forum can give additional information on what kind of casting schedules were actually done for the various parts at the Ford foundaries?
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
I was attempting to get the heads off the block this evening.
Supposedly this engine has never been run but has been together for a long time.
All of the head bolts came out without any signs of corrosion.
Does anyone know of an easy way jar these things loose?
I'm trying not to mar any surfaces with screwdriver or pry bar marks.
|
|
By aussiebill - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Look on each end of head, there is a small recess where a screw driver can be inserted to lever head up.
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
I saw those notches and did stick a screwdriver in there to try and pry a bit.
I'm assuming I can gently hit it with a hammer to wedge the head loose?
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks for tips, heads are off. 
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
|
look at the thick oil laying on the pistons. 
|
|
By MoonShadow - 13 Years Ago
|
|
I would guess that the oil was poured into the cylinders while it was parked. If its standing in all of them. At least the rings didn't let it seep down. Chuck
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Not all of them have oil.
Now I need to decide if I should refresh with a gasket set or see about having it rebuilt.
|
|
By MoonShadow - 13 Years Ago
|
|
How do the cylinder walls look? If its a new rebuilt the cross hatch should still be there. Seems the pistons look new is there a number stamped in the top of them? Are you able to turn the crank shaft now? Chuck
|
|
By NoShortcuts - 13 Years Ago
|
Hmmmm.... Are my eyes playing tricks on me... or has the block deck surface been tapered from the cylinder head gasket edge to the cylinder bore where the intake and exhaust valves would be over the block deck?
IF so, you have a MODIFIED engine... 
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Hey Chuck, i'm new, not sure what you mean by the term "cross hatch". But there is no "lip" in the cylinder at the top of the ring stroke.
Pistons are all stamped .0425 and there doesn't seem to be any carbon buildup on any of the piston heads or in the valve area of the heads.
And YES!!! I was able to turn the flywheel, which im pretty excited about.
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Thanks so much for all of your replies, you've all been so helpful.
NoS, you may be looking at the oil still left on the block after I removed the head.
i didn't wipe the block deck clean.
That is . . . . . if im interpreting what you're looking at correctly.
|
|
By MoonShadow - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Here is a link to an article about crosshatching. Chuck http://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTips/cylinder_bore_refinishing.htm
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Nice article, Thanks. I think mine look a little too flat. 
|
|
By MoonShadow - 13 Years Ago
|
|
It really dosen't look like the engine was run much. Have you pulled the pan yet? Look over the rod and main bearings for wear. Chuck
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
Yup, pan is off.
ECZ on main caps = 312
I think you're right Moon, it was run very little if at all.
I've investigated enough to at least know what I've got now.
I wish some of you were closer to help me complete the rebuild.
I would like to replace the heads for starters.
|
|
By MoonShadow - 13 Years Ago
|
|
We have a few members from down your way. Maybe one of them will pick up on this and offer a hand. I'm a bit too far away in New Hampshire. Do you have any mechanical experience? Changing the heads is not too far from the basics. Just a few thing to watch. Chuck
|
|
By WoodDean - 13 Years Ago
|
I have some mechanical experience but I've never done an engine rebuild.
I'd like to put a set of 56 tbird heads on this block and I can do that.
But the thing I'm worried about is the incompleteness of the engine.
Some bolts are obviously mismatched. Some have washers, some don't, the exhaust manifolds were attached with 4 or 5 different styles of bolts of varying length. I'm missing the alternator bracket, dipstick tube, distributor, balancer, fan pulley, fan, etc.
I'm not sure what parts I need. Seems like I'm looking for a illustrated parts list or professional help.
|
|
By MoonShadow - 13 Years Ago
|
|
The bolts shouldn't be a big problem. My local Ace hardware store has a decent selection and there is always ARP. Make sure when you do the heads that the two longer bolts go in the right holes. Make a complete list of what you need and put it in the classifieds section. Carl in Ohio has almost everything and I'm sure he'll chime in. Chuck
|