By alanfreeman - 13 Years Ago
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I am still struggling with this 1961 292 which bent both pushrods of cylinder #7. This is a low mile engine which was rebuilt about 10 years ago but sat around in a garage until recently. It is real clean inside without a speck of grease and the oil is clean. It ran great the first 8-10 tmes I fired it up but then it suddenly started running rough and missing. I determined that #7 was not firing so I pulled the valve cover and discovered 2 bent pushrods, one of which had gone down in the valley. I fished it out and today I installed 2 new pushrods. I set the lash to .19 and then cranked the engine over with the valve cover still off and the distributor disconnected. One valve on #7 worked correctly but the rocker and valve spring on the valve with the pushrod which had landed in the valley never moved at all and it immediately bent the new pushrod which almost went down in the valley again. The only explanation I can think of for this is that I have a valve on #7 which is completely stuck and immovable. Does anyone have a remedy for this short of pulling the head? Thanks, Alan
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By alanfreeman - 13 Years Ago
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I tapped gently on the valve stem with the rocker removed and it didn't move at first. However, after a few more gentle taps, the spring depressed and now the valve is stuck in the open position! Do I have to take the keeper and the valve spring off in order to squirt Mystery Oil or WD-40 under the rubber seal? And if I remove the keeper and spring, don't I risk having the valve fall inside the cylinder? Thanks, Alan
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By MoonShadow - 13 Years Ago
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Pour some solevent aroung the valve. I use Marvel Mystery Oil. Let it soak overnight then gife the top of the valve a whack with a rubber mallet or dead blow hammer. When these engine sit for a while the valve stems can get seized up on the valve guides. Don't hit it too hard but a decent whack should free the valve up. Once you can see it moving try another push rod. Chuck
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By alanfreeman - 13 Years Ago
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But won't the valve stem seal prevent the Mystery Oil from seeping in around the valve guides? Also, now that the valve is stuck down what is the best way to grab onto it to work it in and out in order to free it up? Alan
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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Using a spray lube may allow enough lube to get under the valve seal. Short of pulling the head, you can try to lever up the valve spring and remove the retainer so you can get to the top of the guide to get some lube at it directly. Rotating the engine so the piston is at the top of the bore will reduce the risk of the valve dropping completely out of the head. The root cause for this has yet to be determined. While the guides being on the tight side could be part of the problem and especially if the guides themselves are still iron, old fuel is typically the culprit in these cases. After running for a bit, old fuel will leave a varnish or gummy deposit between the stem and the guide and will stick the valve within the guide once the engine cools. This particular scenario happens more on the intake valves than the exhaust. If the fuel is old (over ninety days) or smells bad, it needs to be changed out with fresh fuel before running the engine again. My recommendation for vehicles that are not run very often is to always keep premium fuel (contains no ethanol) in the tank and keep the fuel level on the low side. By keeping fuel levels low, the fuel within the tank can be turned over more frequently although not many miles are being driven.
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By chiggerfarmer - 13 Years Ago
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Ted did not mention fuel stabilizer as a viable option here, so I was wondering if anyone has experience with it or cares to comment on it's reliability? Thanks
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By Glen Henderson - 13 Years Ago
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The only way that I have been able to keep my small engines, lawn mower, chain saw, weed eater, generator ect running the last couple of years is to use Sea Foam or some other stabilizer in the gas. The ethanol will eat up rubber products in a matter of weeks. I think if I were storing a car for more than a month I would use an additive or as Ted stated us a non blended fuel if you can find it.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 13 Years Ago
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Ted (10/7/2012) "premium fuel (contains no ethanol)"
Doesn't that depend on the fuel brand/station location? I had always heard ethanol is sometimes used as an octane booster. Website listing of ethanol-free gas outlets becoming shorter, I notice.
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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DANIEL TINDER (10/7/2012)
Ted (10/7/2012) "premium fuel (contains no ethanol)" Doesn't that depend on the fuel brand/station location? I had always heard ethanol is sometimes used as an octane booster. Website listing of ethanol-free gas outlets becoming shorter, I notice. It’s a relatively easy and a two minute check to verify exactly how much ethanol is in a given gasoline. While I’ve found an excess of the labeled amounts of ethanol in the lower octane grades of pump gasoline, I don’t find any in the premium gasoline being sold in my area. While it’s suppose to be a country wide mandate to not have any ethanol in premium gasoline, all I can verify for fact is it’s not in premium gasoline in my area. I do end up doing frequent checks on my end to verify this simply due to using a considerable amount of pump gasoline on the dyno. I get very constant results on the ~10% ethanol in 87 and 89 octane fuels but absolutely none in the 92-93 octane gasoline. Here’s a picture of a commercially available ethanol tester but a tester can be made out of any kind of clear tube that’s gasoline compatible.
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By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
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I did a check the premium from a local station a couple weeks ago. It was about 5%. I use premium in everything. Maybe that's why I haven't experienced the same problems others have with ethanol. I've had 0 problems with it.
You can pick up ethanol free gas at lawn related stores. You can even order pales or barrels if you wish. It costs more than the stuff at the pump, though.
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By alanfreeman - 13 Years Ago
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Problem solved. All valves working properly after lots of Marvel Mystery Oil and WD-40. Thanks to all. Alan
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By DANIEL TINDER - 13 Years Ago
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[quote][b]Ted (10/9/2012)
"I do end up doing frequent checks on my end to verify this simply due to using a considerable amount of pump gasoline on the dyno"
Ted,
I could see why you would not want ethanol in pump gas used for dyno testing (lower energy potential=lower HP), but aside from the usual complaints re: gasohol, as long as the minimum required octane is there, any reason to avoid it for high CR engine break-in? All the premium available in my area has ethanol.
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By Hutz 292 - 13 Years Ago
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You can actually make more power with Ethonal as long as your engine is tune for it. Ethonal burns leaner so it requires more of it to maintain proper airfuel ratio. We use E85 on all of our high performance engines. I am running it on my 62 F100 292 and it works great. It also keeps the combustion temps down because it burns cooler. If you run a fuel with a percentage of Ethonal in it your engine will not perform as well because it was originally intended to have pure gas in it. If you cannot find fuel without a blend in it you could tune your engine slightly richer and might help. It would require dyno testing and air fuel ratio monitors. We do a lot of performance tuning and I agree that finding consistent fuel is a big issue.
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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DANIEL TINDER (11/29/2012)
Ted (10/9/2012)
"I do end up doing frequent checks on my end to verify this simply due to using a considerable amount of pump gasoline on the dyno" Ted, I could see why you would not want ethanol in pump gas used for dyno testing (lower energy potential=lower HP), but aside from the usual complaints re: gasohol, as long as the minimum required octane is there, any reason to avoid it for high CR engine break-in? All the premium available in my area has ethanol. Daniel. No reason to avoid it if that’s all you have. And octane is octane so it really doesn’t matter what the fuel is as long as it keeps detonation at bay. The ethanol laden fuels do have a propensity for the ethanol portion to drop out of suspension and the shelf life is reduced also. I’ve found up to 30% ethanol in gasoline purchased from those stations that do not turn over their gasoline storage tanks very often. The water attraction issue with ethanol laden fuels makes any moisture that accumulates in carbs and the rest of the fuel system a problem also. All this reminds me of that old quote, “Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?”. But with all that aside, the major problem I have with ethanol laden fuels is consistency in the percent or amount of ethanol that’s in the gasoline. For testing purposes, any variance in ethanol amounts makes for inconsistency in the air/fuel ratios when doing an above average number of dyno pulls where the engine is requiring more than a simple five gallons of fuel. Nothing worse than have a combination sorted out and then a fuel change requires a jetting change in which to keep testing variables to a minimum. In a street driven vehicle, this same inconsistency would be a tank to tank issue. The 312 dyno mule with its 400+ dyno pulls on it would be a great example of why I would want some consistency in the fuel. By simply testing with ethanol free gasoline, at least one level of inconsistency is removed from the equation. If you’re not testing the fuel for ethanol content, you really don’t know what you have. I can still get ethanol free premium grade gasoline at the pump but I’m finding that I must shop around for it now as the premium fuels are now starting to show up randomly in my area with some ethanol in it. And once the stations storage tank has been adulterated with ethanol laden fuel, it takes awhile to get rid of that even if subsequent loads of fuel have no ethanol. The fuel tanker drivers tell me that the ethanol is added to the gasoline at the local fuel distributorships as the gasoline is ethanol free when loaded at the refinery. The exception to this is where the refinery is in the same geographic neighborhood that the fuel makes its final sale. There seems to be an issue with the ethanol dropping out of the mix when hauled for long distances which is why the ethanol is added closer to the point of sale and not necessarily at the refinery. This then leads me to believe that this same ‘ethanol drop out issue’ can potentially take place to some degree in your daily driver vehicle.
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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Hutz 292 (11/30/2012) You can actually make more power with Ethonal as long as your engine is tuned for it. Ethanol burns leaner so it requires more of it to maintain proper airfuel ratio. We use E85 on all of our high performance engines. I am running it on my 62 F100 292 and it works great. It also keeps the combustion temps down because it burns cooler. If you run a fuel with a percentage of Ethonal in it your engine will not perform as well because it was originally intended to have pure gas in it. If you cannot find fuel without a blend in it you could tune your engine slightly richer and might help. It would require dyno testing and air fuel ratio monitors. We do a lot of performance tuning and I agree that finding consistent fuel is a big issue.Hutz. Ditto on the fuel consistency. The jury is still out here on whether gasoline or ethanol makes the most power. I’ve done repeated tests on the dyno for customers with both and it all hinges on the carburetor on which does the best. If limited to pump gasoline and a 91-93 octane level, then alcohol is the obvious choice for high compression or boosted engines but once the gasoline octane is matched to that of alcohol, then alcohol no longer has that particular advantage.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 13 Years Ago
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[quote][b]Ted (11/30/2012)
This then leads me to believe that this same ‘ethanol drop out issue’ can potentially take place to some degree in your daily driver vehicle.
With what consequence? Initially, if the pickup point in the fuel tank is higher or lower than the separation/stratum level, you would then be burning either pure high octane gasoline (assuming the ethanol has absorbed all the water), or a mixture of alcohol and water which might lean out the charge, but should resist detonation and burn cooler (?). If driving around, wouldn't the gas and ethanol soon remix, nullifying the dropout effect?
I quit using StaBil years ago since it sped the deterioration of Viton accelerator pump cups & float needles, but I'm now considering their Marine blend for the snow months. In a pinch, my '55 still has it's orig. gas tank with drain plug. I see an alcohol test kit in my future.
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