draft tube


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By chuckcmc - 13 Years Ago
Just had a 272 rebuilt and am getting alot of oil dripping from draft tube.

Any ideas will help. New draft tube filter installed,oil breather cap cleaned

and clear.Draft tube still has return spout intact.Has any body had this same problem

and got a fix??

Thanks, Newbi member
By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
Are you sure the draft tube oil return tube is clear?
By chiggerfarmer - 13 Years Ago
Once I failed to get the filter can on straight and it leaked and ran down the outside of the tube. The can fits down inside a lip and it is easy to get it on crooked and not sealed.
By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
Further; remembered a couple of other causes that have been reported. Unit may not be sealed to the block properly. And one case reported of the base having a rust pin hole. Also on one brand of filter, the metal outer screen on it is to long & may prevent sealing of the cover properly. May require trimming back with tin snips.. hope all this helps?
By Rono - 13 Years Ago
I'm just guessing here, but if it is a fresh rebuild you may be getting some blow-by into the crankcase and out the road draft tube until the piston rings seat properly. Maybe just watch it for a couple of hundred miles and see if the dripping from the tube slows down.

Rono 

By lowrider - 13 Years Ago
I second the suggestion of the filter can not sealing correctly. They will leak pretty good there.
By Daniel Jessup - 13 Years Ago
Is the oil leaking down the outside of the draft tube or down the inside?

If it is leaking down the outside, then you could have a misaligned cannister or the top of the cannister where the single hold down bolt goes may have been crushed a smidge so that when fully cinched down, the bolt cannot keep the bottom of the can from wobbling. If this is the case, then you would need to remove your cannister, turn it upside down on flat surface, get a sizeable socket and strike it with a hammer to get the sheet metal to go back towards original spec. Check that pesky flat-o-ring at the bottome of that cannister too.. that could be a problem...misalignments are easy to do.

If it is leaking down the inside of the tube (I have had this happen to me too), you have too much blow by from new rings. In the past, I have removed the downdraft tube completely, installed a flat plate to cover the hole (FoMoCo made those to spec also), and then installed a valley pan up top that had the vent opening for Crankcase Ventilation. You could either run a down draft tube from there like most of the late 50s model cars had or you could use this a PCV port to send over to your carb/intake. There are plenty of posts about how to plumb that kind of job to your Y.

How much are you leaking? Does it get worse with higher RPM or remain the same?

Keep us up to date, we are here to help.

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
If you want to plug the hole in the block permanently you can use the proper size cup type frost plug and a couple of correct size bolts to plug the bolt holes as they go right through into the inside of the block.
By chuckcmc - 13 Years Ago
Tube is clear of any obstruction.Checked this out first thing,so this isn't the problem

Thanks, Chuck
By chuckcmc - 13 Years Ago
Engine still has very low miles so this could be the problem[rings not broken in ]

However when cars were new I don't think that would have been a problem.

Will keep an eye on mileage plus oil drip quanity

Thanks, Chuck
By chuckcmc - 13 Years Ago
PF Arcand (11/23/2012)
Are you sure the draft tube oil return tube is clear?






Yes -oil return tube is clear-1st thing I checked

Thanks, Chuck
By oldave57 - 13 Years Ago
Hello Chuck,

I had a very similar situation with my 57 Fairlane (292).  After a complete engine rebuild, I was advised by the engine shop to run the engine at 1800 RPM for 20 minutes to "run in" the cam (something that is common after an engine rebuild with new camshaft).  After shutting down the engine there was a large puddle under the draft tube.  I had installed a new filter when re-installing the engine and the gasket to the block was new and tight.  I had quite a bit of oil spray when driving the car and the source appeared to be the draft tube as well.

I decided to try a modification to the draft tube cannister (pictures attached) that worked very well right from the start (the engine was rebuilt in early 2009 and now has around 5,000 miles on it).  I replaced the filter with a section of 2" PVC pipe (the filter is 2.25" outside diameter and the 2" PVC is 2.375" so it seemed to fit within the cover okay).  I made the pipe length 1.875" (same as the filter) and cut a notch out of the front upper portion of the pipe to allow for air flow.  The PVC pipe was glued in place using JB Weld and it acts as a "dam" to block oil from flowing into the draft tube before it can flow back into the block through the return tube.  My reasoning for eliminating the filter is that the air flow is always from the engine out to the draft tube, so it is doubtful that that any dirt could enter the engine from the draft tube.  I also never drive on dusty roads, so that may be a consideration if you do.  You could "patch in" a portion of filter in the notch of the pipe if concerned.

In any case, the modification has worked very well.  There was no longer any expulsion of oil from the tube while driving or accumulation after parking the car.  I'm sure there are other fixes, including adding a PCV valve and directing the flow through the carburetor, but I found this to work well for me.

Regards,

Dave

   

By Hutz 292 - 13 Years Ago
Blow by is perfectly normal on any engine including brand new ones today.  That is why all engines went from a vent to a pcv system.  That way any blow by gases and oil film will just return through the engine.  If you ever notice the cummins engine on like 99-06 Dodge.  EPA did not regulate what they had to do with there crank case gases so dodge ran a tube down the side of the engine which drip oil on the ground and make a mess all over the truck.  Even if you have some oil dropps and if the engine is new it is perfectly normal.  If you want to eliminate it what I did was put a fitting in my exhaust pipe that is angled so the exhaust gases will actually create a vacumm on the breather pipe and help pull a slight vacuum on the crank case which will actually help your engine perform too.  You can buy everything through jegs.  The fitting and there is check valve you install so exhaust won't go back into your crank.
By Ted - 13 Years Ago
Hutz 292 (11/30/2012)
.......If you want to eliminate it what I did was put a fitting in my exhaust pipe that is angled so the exhaust gases will actually create a vacumm on the breather pipe and help pull a slight vacuum on the crank case which will actually help your engine perform too.  You can buy everything through jegs.  The fitting and there is check valve you install so exhaust won't go back into your crank.
Vacuum systems that use the exhaust flow as the flow driver are typically non-effective in daily driver situations when hooked up to an exhaust system that has mufflers or long small diameter pipes.  This is simply due to any back pressure present reducing the negative air pressure flow across the installed nozzle and subsequently prevents a vacuum or negative pressure from being generated.  These types of vacuum evacuation systems are ideally suited on open headers that have no mufflers and as a result, these systems do work well on the racing applications.  Here’s a picture of the evacuation system on my roadster.

 

By Ted - 13 Years Ago
chuckcmc (11/23/2012)
Just had a 272 rebuilt and am getting alot of oil dripping from draft tube.
Any ideas will help. New draft tube filter installed, oil breather cap cleaned
and clear. Draft tube still has return spout intact. Has any body had this same problem
and got a fix??

Thanks, Newbi member

Welcome to the site.  You might double check the face of the draft tube where it bolts to the block and insure it’s flat.  These are easily deformed and the gasket simply doesn’t do its job in sealing against a surface that’s not quite flat.

By DANIEL TINDER - 13 Years Ago
Am I missing something? Since race cars usually travel at a high rate of speed, would an exhaust rigged evacuation system (aside for brief idling periods) be any better than a T-Bird style valley cover draft tube that never leaks? Some racetracks require mufflers, and a charge mixture diluted with blow-by gasses would have to burn leaner and thus contain less energy/HP potential than pure gasoline.
By Ted - 13 Years Ago
DANIEL TINDER (11/30/2012)
Am I missing something? Since race cars usually travel at a high rate of speed, would an exhaust rigged evacuation system (aside for brief idling periods) be any better than a T-Bird style valley cover draft tube that never leaks?
Assuming the exhaust pulses are approaching the speed of sound, then an undercar road pipe would need to see ~777 mph to get an equivalent speed effect that generates the same negative air pressure as does an exhaust system driven evacuation system.  That’s the simple explanation.  Road draft tubes by design were not to make a negative pressure within the engine but instead promote air movement through the engine.

For what it’s worth, the exhaust driven system on my roadster is working well at 2500 rpms and just gets better as the rpms go up.  Many high end race cars (and especially those that use mufflers) incorporate either electric or belt driven vacuum pumps to maintain a negative pressure within the crankcase in lieu of using an exhaust driven evacuation system.  I’ve seen as much as 30HP on engines that use a belt driven vacuum pump versus no pump at all so there’s definitely some power to be found in running a negative pressure on the crankcase regardless of the method employed.

Some racetracks require mufflers, and a charge mixture diluted with blow-by gasses would have to burn leaner and thus contain less energy/HP potential than pure gasoline.
The exhaust driven evacuation systems are not tied to the intake tracts but instead to the crankcase usually by way of the valve covers.  A check valve at the header keeps any unwanted exhaust pressure from making its way back to the crankcase in the event backpressure does take place.  These types of evacuation systems are not to be confused with positive crankcase ventilation systems which serve a different purpose.
By jrw429 - 13 Years Ago
I guess I am confused. Can you elaborate on the differences between PCV, which uses intake vacuum to clear the crankcase, and the systems which use an even higher vacuum to clear the crankcase?
By Ted - 13 Years Ago
jrw429 (12/3/2012)
I guess I am confused. Can you elaborate on the differences between PCV, which uses intake vacuum to clear the crankcase, and the systems which use an even higher vacuum to clear the crankcase?

A PCV valve is simply a controlled vacuum leak which requires an adjustment to the air fuel ratio in which to compensate.  PCV systems utilize the engine manifold vacuum to pull air from the crankcase whereas auxillary pumps (electric or belt driven) or exhaust driven systems do not require engine vacuum in which to operate.  But the purposes for each do vary.

 

PCV valve systems are specifically for removing moisture or excess pressure from the crankcase which would be an environmental concern if not reburned through the engine.  PCV systems are typically a flow through design that do not pull a vacuum on a crankcase but can remove enough excess pressure that any existing oil leakage can be significantly reduced.  If a PCV valve is used on a sealed system, then a reduction in crankcase pressure will be realized but its ability to actually remove any moisture or condensate from a warming up engine will be compromised.  It’s that flow through design that actually allows contaminates to be moved to the PCV valve where it can be reburned through the engine.

 

Auxillary driven pumps are for removing air itself from the crankcase and are realized more for their performance gains than for environmental purposes.  This is because these air pumps are designed to remove air on a sealed system rather than simply allowing air to flow through the engine.  Removing air from the crankcase frees up horsepower simply due to the pistons not having to work as hard in moving it around.  Air has mass and as a result it takes a given amount of power to move it around.  These same auxillary systems can also improve compression ring seal but there are some detriments to having too much negative pressure in the crankcase.  First is a reduction in oil pressure and secondary is some starving of oil in top end parts such as around the wrist pins.  For this reason, many auxillary engine vacuum systems will have an adjustable vacuum break to limit the amount of negative pressure that can be generated within a crankcase.

By DANIEL TINDER - 13 Years Ago
Boy, you learn something new everyday. Had no idea of the potential HP gains realized through neg. crankcase pressure. I had always assumed the exhaust-driven evac. system's purpose was akin to typical PCV benefits (drawing out blow-by gasses at idle, and relieving some pressure at high revs). If that system is supposed to be closed in order to maintain neg. pressure, then modern exhaust or pump-driven evac. motors likely don't have all the extra valve cover breathers we are used to seeing in 60s era race engines that bled off the excess pressure created at very high RPMs?
By Ted - 13 Years Ago
DANIEL TINDER (12/6/2012)
.... If that system is supposed to be closed in order to maintain neg. pressure, then modern exhaust or pump-driven evac. motors likely don't have all the extra valve cover breathers we are used to seeing in 60s era race engines that bled off the excess pressure created at very high RPMs?
Modern big inch race engines typically only have one exit from the engine for a vacuum system.  If ring seal is good, then any pressure lost at the rings is expected to be minimal.  Because my roadster uses an exhaust driven evacuation system, I have two exits, one in each valve cover simply due to using both headers to drive the system.  Exhaust driven systems do not have near the flow producing capacity as the belt driven pump models.  I’ll add that a multistage dry sump oil system can also pull a vacuum on a crankcase.  I now see dry sump equipped racing engines also using auxillary vacuum pumps to just up the ante on the amount of vacuum being pulled over and beyond what the dry sump pump can pull.
By geo55 - 13 Years Ago
I had that problem with a 292 that I bought used. When running, it was putting down about one drop of oil every 5 seconds or so. It looked from above that the oil was dropping out of the tube. However when I decided to crawl under the car while the motor was running, I noticed that the oil was running down the OUTSIDE of the backside of the tube. Made me think there might be a hole in the cannister part of the assembly. Took the entire assembly off , took off the cap and filter and cleaned thoroughly. I poured motor oil in the bowl part and tilted it to roughly  the same angle it would be when bolted to the engine block. Sure enough, oil began to run down the outside of the tube. Problem was: Not counting the cap and filter, That road draft assembly has two pieces : the bowl shaped part and the tube. There is a pinchwelded seam where the tube and bowl go together. Mine was leaking at the seam and when I cleaned mine , It appeared that the seam was also brazed with bronze brazing rod on the inside. Factory brazed seam? I don't know. These assemblies hang down low on the motor and are prone to be bent or tweaked when pulling motors out of the car. I know. I have done it to them. Mine was probably bumped at some time, maybe by me and the seam was cracked and leaked afterward. I cleaned the seam to bare metal inside and outside and re brazed the seam on both sides. I could have used a mig welder to weld the seam solid on the outside but chose not to . My problem was solved . No more oil leak. Good luck. 
By ChrisnLouie - 12 Years Ago
Howdy Mate, if you are running the stock fuel pump, just check for oil leakage from the rear facing spindle shaft hole. If it's worn it will seep oil which will eventually be blown back onto the draft tube, giving the impression of an oil leak from the draft tube itself. It's one of those tests that "The Gods" sent down to check our level of evolution Bro'.

Let me know what you fi9nd.

Cheers, Louie , NZ

By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
It's worth mentioning again, that on a stock Y-Blk, the only crankcase ventilation intake is thru the oil filler cap screen. In service this was not a great idea, as dirt drawn into the engine compartment quickly plugs the screen, resulting in no flow thru venting. This is a major contributor to engine sludge problems..