Valve Keepers


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By Y block Billy - 12 Years Ago
Does it matter which way they go and what are your opinions? should they be parallel to the rocker or 90* to the rocker?
By The Bat out of hell - 12 Years Ago
In a perfect world,the valves rota some and so do sping ect,so no don't matter,kind of like putting in rings,good the be sure there stagered gap wose,but they do move when new running
By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
Hmmm.... 'The Bat' is correct... IF you are using the original FoMoCo 'usual production' y-block valve spring retainers. The FoMoCo two piece valve spring retainers were designed to cause the valves to rotate during normal engine operation to prolong valve life.

However, IF you have original '57 'E' or 'F' code single piece valve spring retainers, OR aftermarket single piece valve spring retainers from performance camshaft kit or component suppliers, the valves do not rotate and therefore the valve keepers retain their 'as installed' orientation.

Perhaps Ted, John Mummert, or McTim will have a comment as to whether they pay attention to valve keeper orientation on single piece valve spring retainers when they assemble cylinder heads having them... Ermm
By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
Which brings up the subject of original 2 piece valve keeper/retainers vs aftermarket ones that are usually one piece. Why one piece? Are 2 piece units unreliable with higher spring pressures or in high performance applications??
By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
I like your question, too, Paul. Is it a matter of fewer valve train components resulting in less weight / inertia in the valve train? Is it simply a matter of assuring valve train reliability at high rpms?
By Ted - 12 Years Ago

Makes no difference in how the keepers are clocked. And with single piece valve spring retainers, the valves do still rotate. That’s simply a result of the angle of the coil in the springs promoting the rotation.

Here’s a video that helps to demonstrate how much rotation can occur in the springs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vz4mjPKXJ0

One piece retainers are favored in a high performance application due to being able to handle increased valve spring pressures without a retainer failure while at the same time being lighter. Titanium is the material of choice for single piece retainers in a high performance application when the budget permits it.
By Y block Billy - 12 Years Ago
What about during the first few minutes of break in before the valves start rotating and the keepers are seating, would there be a preferred clocking of them? I am using the one piece.
By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
INTERESTING. Thanks, Ted! Smile
By lyonroad - 12 Years Ago
Ted, that video is something. With that much rotation, combined with the pressure and the fact that the rotation is against the bottom turn of the spring you wonder why they don't drill themselves into the head in no time.
By Y block Billy - 12 Years Ago
Something doesn't appear right with that video, that spring is turning 2 revolutions for every rocker lift, I watched other videos, the one of the valve spring at 7000rpm and that spring wasnt turning but 1/16 per rocker lift, I also watched a few other videos but they were overhead cam and could not really see the turning action well. I know the valves and springs turn and such, but that appears excessive and it does not stop when relaxed, I can see it revolving a quarter turn or so after each compression from the rocker but it should slow down or stop between compressions shouldnt it?
By Y block Billy - 12 Years Ago
Guess we should have asked Karol Miller what he saw when he was looking through the scope, while he and I were at Teds the other day.
By Y block Billy - 12 Years Ago
As a matter of fact I have watched enough springs turn in my day while running engines with the valve covers off that say at 1000 rpm the springs is probably turning one revolution every 5 seconds or so (from my recollection which is probably way off but just an example) the rocker is compressing the spring 500 times during that period of 1 minute which relates to the spring turning 12 times a minute, 12 divided by 500 = .024" the spring is turning per compression, nowhere near 2 times per compression like in the video. Hard to beleive a video could lie but what were they running this on?

This would be a good test to make and certainly you should be able to clock a springs revolution at a certain rpm!
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
Y block Billy (3/16/2013)
What about during the first few minutes of break in before the valves start rotating and the keepers are seating, would there be a preferred clocking of them? I am using the one piece.

Billy. Those keepers had best be seated after the first valve action. That means roughly one second of indecision on the part of the valve retainer / lock assembly during the initial startup on whether the retainer is going to be seated or has the potential for a failure.



Y block Billy (3/16/2013)
Something doesn't appear right with that video, that spring is turning 2 revolutions for every rocker lift, I watched other videos, the one of the valve spring at 7000rpm and that spring wasnt turning but 1/16 per rocker lift, I also watched a few other videos but they were overhead cam and could not really see the turning action well. I know the valves and springs turn and such, but that appears excessive and it does not stop when relaxed, I can see it revolving a quarter turn or so after each compression from the rocker but it should slow down or stop between compressions shouldnt it?

What’s not shown in that first video that was posted is the rpm that the engine is running at. Depending upon the video frames per second speed and the engines actual rpm, the valve action can be quite misleading. The fact that the spring is constantly rotating is a good indication that the video is only catching some of the valve action and not all of it. While the spring rotation in that video seems severe, I suspect the rpms of the engine in that particular video was way up there.

Here’s the link to another video where the engine is held at 7000 rpms which gives another view of valve spring rotation. This one is not near as severe as the earlier posted video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_NpzU4pGjc&NR=1&feature=fvwp

And here are couple other videos where the rpm is slowly increased thus demonstrating how the frames per second of the video recording device gives a misleading view of the speed of the valve action at the various engine rpms. But both of these videos give a good view of valve spring rotation by watching the retainer. Without some reference marks on the spring itself, it’s difficult to discern the actual valve spring rotation in the first video but the retainer does tell the story. The stripe mark on the spring in the second video helps to clarify the actual spring rotation though. Both of these videos give a running narrative of the rpms as they are being changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_REQ1PUM0rY&NR=1&feature=endscreen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfGg15WgSEU