It may also have been used in Fords racing program for the 312 during 1956.The hi preformance Ford setup for 1956 included a camshaft.

Unfortunatley I do not have any more information regarding specs on that camshaft.

The rumor mill says that Ford and Merc both used the E2 camshaft for 1956.

I have never seen any information regarding its use in any 1957 vehicle such as the factory supercharged engine.

Course there was a bunch of installations done by Paxton during 1956 which could have used the E2.

Nothing by Ford however.

Oldmics

The specs for the "high lift " cam for the blown engine are listed in the back of the '57 Ford Supercharger manual published  by Ford.  32-78, 72-38 at checking clearances of .016 int. and .019 exh.  Running clearances are listed at .020 and .025, so running duration would be a little less than the 290 degrees at checking clearances.  Lobe lift is .290 int. and exh.  Duration at .050 and lobe separation angles were never mentioned in those days, maybe no one paid any attention then.  I have a friend in Mi who was a Ford engineer and recently became interested in F code cars.  He showed me some things in a large loose leaf binder, copies of documents from the Ford archives.  Included was a blueprint of the B7A-C cam, and also a B7A-D cam which I had never heard of.  I don't know if he is permitted to share that information or not.

Years ago I ordered a blower cam from Ford.  It came in a tube with EDB-D printed on it, was marked out with a pen and B7A-C hand written on it.  At the time I paid little attention, but later I wondered if it was a leftover '56 race cam.  I think it is the one in my '57 Bird now, and as I remember it checked out about 270 degrees at running clearance.  It has a smoother idle than the 290 degree cam I had in my race car, and works well with a stock converter.  I noticed a cam for sale on this site a week or so ago, and it had EDB-D on the tube also.  Another friend in Mi said he has a NOS blower cam, when he digs it out I''ll find out what number is on that tube.  Maybe all blower cams were marked EDB but billed as B7A-C.

John

       I've never heard of anyone using an Isky in a blown car, although I'm sure it's been done. You could certainly get an indication by using one of the desktop horsepower programs and simply plug in the various numbers for lift and duration.  

I don't want to get into an arguement, however I think you have heard some misguided rumors somewhere.  All the blown '57 were rated at 300 HP.  Ford never rated a Y at 340.  They were rated at 300 whether they had the 256 degree cam used in all '57s, or the optional 290 degree job.  The 270 horse E code used the regular 256 cam, the 285 horse E code used a hotter cam.  Maybe that's where those EDB-D cams came from.  The blower cam was part number B7A-C, not D.

Racing our cars at various tracks, and in your case showing and cruising, we hear stories from many people who "remember those blown cars when they were new" and know all about them.  Then they start talking about things that were heresay and rumor, and the stories get all twisted.  Even magazines get it wrong.  There is a '71 article about Larry Walker's record holding '57 Custom, and the blower pressures they quote are a mix of the factory specs and specs that Larry probably gave them so that NHRA wouldn't find out he was running more boost than originally specified.  But I have to admit I worked to those specs when I raced NHRA stock.

John

Thank you for your answers.

Heres what I am finding out.

I recently purchased that camshaft that was advertised as a N.O.S. blower camshaft from the classified sections.

The deal that I arrived at with the seller is a money back situation if it was not the real deal according to the given specs.

After analysis on the CamDoctor.I find that it is NOt an E4 grind OR exactly the same as Eickmans book specs.

It does share "some" of Eickmans specs.

I have not yet seen the supercharger manual specs,but have a copy of that page coming to me.

A call to Mummert provided an interesting discussion.

John had just recently come across a used blower cam provided by a customer in his shop for analysis.

The physical marking were the same as my shaft.The data acquired form John"s analysis also is the same as the one that I have.

The key point of information here is that the original used cam that John checked was on 110 centers.

All of Fords other stuff that I know about was on 112 centers.

John believes that the 110 centers are original and correct for the hi power optional camshaft blower application.

Now Hoosier brings up a good point about the horse power ratings.

Ford never did rate above the 300 H.P. level in 1957.

Stands to reason that a hotter cam than the stock 312 cam (which was used in ALL of the 312 engines) would up the horsepower rating to the 340 specs we all have heard.

This optional 110 center cam was probably used in 285 H.P. engines.This way Ford still could rate a higher H.P. than Chevy and be below 300 H.P. for insurance ratings or whatever reasons they had.

I asked John why were his repro shafts were ground on 112 centers.

His answer was that all of the shafts that he had seen (thats a HUGE amount of experience) for the blower cars were on 112 and he felt that was correct-until this shaft turned up in his shop and now mine as futher proof.

Hoosier,if your engineer friend is able to share that cam information it would be of great interest to myself and I am sure many other folks.

Can you see if he is willing and able to share that with us?

Oldmics-The truth is out there

I think I know where the 340 HP figure came from.  It was said that the 300 horse RATED engines put out 325 with the 256 cam and 340 with the 290 cam.  These were supposed to be dyno figures from the engines as they came from the assembly line, not blueprinted versions.  Ford rated the engines at 300 HP at 5400 rpm, the bigger numbers probably came from higher crankshaft speeds.  The 290 cam with the associated better valve train pieces would have allowed more rpm than the milder version.

I'll check and see if we can view the specs from that blueprint.

John

        John's right about the ratings. My note doesn't read like I meant. I beleive NHRA factored the motors to 340 hp and did that with either cam. I never raced one of these in the old stock or SS, so am repeating what I think I heard here. I know there's some confusion on the E codes too, but all indications are the 285 hp version used the same cam as the Blower cam. In other words the 290 degree cam. If I remember correctly in stock you had to run a cam that "checked" stock, in Super you could run anything that would fit in the engine. Another issue that still has me confused is that the exhaust lobe appears to be slightly smaller than the intake (lift and duration). Not certain why they did that. 

        I also meant to mention that I've run my car on the street with the blower disconnected  and the 290 cam is very streetable. Even with the teapot and the 8 1/2 to 1 compression ratio. the car pulls nicely from 1500 up.  

          Duration Cam Lift  LC   Notes

EDB-D 290/290 .290/.290 110

EDB-E 302/302 .295/.295 112

According to a TSB from 1959?, the E cam replaced the D.  Both carried the same service part number of B7A-6250-C.  In addition, there are variants of these cams with B7AE-A - F part numbers, either grooved journal or crossdrilling, and with/with out induction hardened lobes.  

In addition, TSB P-357 dated Sept 11, 1957 discusses the standard blower cam B7A-6250-B with single valve springs, and the DSO (Domestic Special Order) high lift camshaft B7A-6250-C with additional valve dampener springs.  

The M-260 cam:

ECZ-B 256/252 .300/.300 113 Grooved #3 journal, duration measured at .018" cam lift, and hard facing alloy on cam lobes.

Whether this is an Isky cam, I do not know.  Does this spec match with anything that a cam mfg offered back then?

The above is all factual and can be supported.

Regards,

Dennis

          Thanks, I'll get a copy of that from you at Expo, maybe I can run some more cam in my ah..... "pure stocker". Frank   For those of you who don't know him, Dennis is a retired Ford Engineer, and is building a Y block For Expo. He's going to retire his THUNDERBOLT to the show circuit and race the Y. If he, and all his buddies show up in '08 there will be at least Five F codes at the track. If Gordon Payne gets his done, that would be six and Jerry Ponder could make Seven! That may be more F codes in one place then ever happened except at Holman Moody in the 50's!! 

Welcome to the Forum.

Thanks for providing that GREAT,verifiable information.

The new information you have brought does bring up some additional questions.

You mentioned TSB-P357.I have a copy of the reprinted information offered by the CTCI Thunderbird Club.

Unfortunatly they have only printed the information pertaining to Thunderbirds.

In my TSB-P357 it mentions nothing about valve springs,but items #1,3,4 and 11 are deleted since I guess they are not T-Bird related.

In TSB-P358,dated Oct 10th,1957  it mentions the valve springs but deletes items 1,3,4,5,6,7 and 8.

Were you refering to P358 or is the information in one of the deleted sections?

The information that you offered regarding the M 260 cam refers to the same part # that I know (ECZ-6250-B).

I also have a reference to a camshaft which is part # EDB-6250-B in my M 260 information.

Do you know if the EDB-B is the same as the ECZ? 

My Isky information does not have the same specs as your offered information for the ECZ cam.

Perhaps Isky was NOT the provider for that camshaft as believed.

I am aware that the grind specs were changed on the E2 at some point early on.

I have some additional E2 information coming to me.If it has any new information I will offer it up.

Thanks for filling in a big piece of the puzzle.

Oldmics

So there you are!!  Dennis was willing to share the info I saw in that big binder.  And as Frank mentioned, he has a Thunderbolt.  Actually, he has TWO!  One is a restored period drag car, the other looks like it just came off the transporter.  And now he wants to come play with the Y crowd.  That's exciting!

John

Now that info answers some of the reasons my older brother kept telling me that some cams were harder than others in the y's and if you got the wrong combination it wouldn't last.

what rockwell hardness was the induction hardened lobes??? and what Rockwell lifter goes with it??

The same for the cam with hardfacing, what Rockwell and what lifter matches it???

The other one is only a single sheet and it does not call out the TSB number.  However, it is titled Item #8 Camshaft Revised (312 Cu In High Performance Engine).  The other items discuss 1958 and 59 model years, so I assume it was issued in 1959.

The service part # for the ECZ-B cam is B6A-6250-F.

The service part number for the EDB-B cam is B6A-6250-E.

The spec on the EDB-B cam is 260/260 .278/.278 112 lobe sep.  

Dennis

No hardness callout for hard facing alloy.

The tappets were either cast iron or 5120 steel.  I recall the parts book indicates which tappet is used with a particular camshaft.  Any part numbers for the tappets, particularily the ones that go with the M260 cam?     

Dennis.  Welcome to the site.  That’s some great info.  Thanks for the clarification on the various blower camshafts as that definitely clears up some of the questions.

There have been thoughts around publishing another Y-Block ‘how to’ book and with that, the idea to include many of the TSB’s that were issued in regards to the Y.  What are the odds in getting copies of the TSB’s that you have to also be included in such a book?  Although only an idea at this point in time, such a book would be a collaborative effort to get as much information and different points of view as possible.  There’s been a considerable number of learnings since the Y-Block book authored by Eichman has been published and these need to be documented as a permanent record.

Dennis

In reply to your question about whether the ECZ-B specs match anything that a cam mfg. offered back then, I consulted my 1958 Isky catalog.  In the Y-block listings it lists the following specs for their E-2 Rev-Master:

In. 17-59 Lift .430, Ex. 63-13 Lift .430- Clearance on both is .018"

So it has 256 degrees both Intake and Exhaust.  With 1.43 rockers the .430 lift converts to .300 at the lobe (or .280 if it was computed with 1.54 rockers). 

They also list an E-3 Rev-Master cam, as follows:

In. 26-68 Lift .430, Ex. 71-23 Lift .430 (274 degrees) also with .018" clearance.

Oddly enough they list the E-4 cam for Y-blocks as a regrind only, and I couldn't find any specs.  It is described as Full Race.  I've seen the specs for it somewhere and I was surprised at how close they were to the E-2. 

I bought my first blower cam from my Ford dealer back in 1960- wish I had bought a spare at the time.  Great cam.  Was still in my 292 and working fine when I quit driving it after 99,000 miles.

Hope this is helpful.  Nick Brann

By the way, who are the people involved that are planning on authoring this updated Y-block info book?  Do they have a publisher/printer chosen?

Dennis

E2  In 20-60 Ex 60-70 .430 .020H 260 Deg Hardface Overlay

E3  In 25-68 Ex 68-26 .430 .020H  274 Deg hardface Overlay

E4  In 19-61 Ex 65-15 .400 .015H  260 Deg Cast Iron Billet

The 1988 Isky Catalog lists:

E4 In 22-58 Ex 58-22 .425 .015H 260 Deg 216 @.050" Hi Rev Series

Dennis

Since the T Birds shared many of the same line parts from Ford passenger cars of the manufactored years,I feel that there are some technical service bulletins (tsb)s that should have been included but are not since they do not specifically mention Thunderbirds.

The introduction of the "trash can" fuel filter  (tsb # 1351) is such an example.It is not listed in the CTCI book but is Thunderbird related and important.

I realise that the CTCI did the best that they could and I am NOT bashing them.They have done a huge amount to keep T Birds going.

It would just be nice to see ALL of the Ford tsb info availiable.

Now onto camshaft stuff. 

Looks like Isky was unable to settle on the specs of the cams we are discussing as the years progressed.

For example from the 1958 Isky catologue

                                      Timing         Lift     Clearance            

E2 Rev-Master (Hyperbolic)  In. 17-59     .430         .018

                                      Ex. 63-13     .430         .018

                            1964 Isky Specs

E2                                   In. 22-58      .448         .020

                                      Ex. 58-22      .448         .020

                                                     Duration 260 degree

E2                         1965 Specs

E2  In 20-60 Ex 60-70 .430 .020H 260 Deg Hardface Overlay

  Looks to me like the early E2 was damn close to the Merc M260 bumpstick and then a few changes were made over the years.

With credit due to Nick,in his Isky information from 1958 a Supercharger cam is listed by Isky!

Specs on that are listed as SC #1 (Hyperbolic) Supercharger                                                                                 

                                           Timing        Lift          Clearance 

(Gotta be a misprint on the"9")    In. 9-71      .430            .022 

                                             Ex. 65-15    .430            .022

Just more information that none of us can live without

Oldmics

My reply was in reference to Ted's posting at DTG 11/13/07 5:48:38 about plans of putting together an updated Y block book.  I was curious who's authoring this project and if there was a publisher/printer designated.

Dennis  

Sent you PM, did you receive it?

Dennis

Just recieved the P.M.

Will contact you offline shortly.

Thank you,Oldmics

I do have another string of articles ready to send to Bruce Young (Y-Block Magazine) once I get a final piece of information for the article that needs to precede the others in the order sent.  And while I'm on the YBM subject, a tip of my hat to Bruce Young (and the regular contributors) for keeping the Y-Block Magazine alive as he has single handedly done more as an individual in keeping the Y interest alive.  The YBM has allowed me to touch base on some technical topics not covered in detail by the local mainstream while also permitting me to hone my writing skills.  Thanks Bruce.

I've thought about going through the YBM's and making a detailed index as there has been a myriad of technical articles over the years and a wealth of information.  An index would simplify pulling these articles back up without an extensive manual search.  Maybe someone has already done this?

Re indexing YBM's.  When I got interested in building a blower engine, I ordered an as complete set as possible of YBM's from Bruce Young.  I have them in binders with plastic sleeves, organized in reverse chronological order and tabbed the pages of interest with 3M stick'ems and a brief note of what the item was.  In certain issues of YBM a list by issue of article features were printed.  I also use that as a reference sheet by underlining the important ones to me.

I especially look forward to engine technical articles.  I have a lot of info the 1957 supercharger race program, and have talked to Bruce about writing some articles since I retired.  Unfortunately, since I retired I am more busier than ever.  Can't figure out how I got everything done, especially when I was spending a lot of time out of town for Ford.

Dennis