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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Hey everyone,
Today I planned on reinstalling the radiator on my 292 and then doing an oil change. Well, before I put the rad back in I flushed the block with the water hose and made sure I got all the crud I could. After I filled everything up, I ran the engine to get the oil hot and to get the air out of the system. That's where the problems started. My oil turned milky white, so I somehow now have water mixing with my oil and to top that off, I then noticed transmission fluid bubbling up to the top of my radiator. So...where to start diagnosing?
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By junkyardjeff - 12 Years Ago
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Sounds like you might have flushed part of a head gasket out of the motor along with the crud or could the timing chain cover gasket have let loose in the flushing.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Hmm, sounds plausible. Thanks. And let me add I Had my radiator checked out, but it was too far gone to rod out...it was branded as "weak" oh well
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By junkyardjeff - 12 Years Ago
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I would try a timing chain cover gasket first before yanking the heads.
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By lowrider - 12 Years Ago
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Trans fluid bubbling in the rad sounds like the trans cooler rotted through in the rad. Time for a recore or new one.
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By 314 - 12 Years Ago
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you will also fill your trans with water if its cracked inside.dont run it until you check it out.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks guys, any steps I should take to clean the engine of water for now? Also, would an auxiliary trans cooler work in the meantime?
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Unless I missed something here, this sounds like two problems; transmission fluid making its way into the engine coolant and water finding its way into the engine oil. While an external cooler can likely eliminate the ATF from making its way to the radiator, then doing away with the water in the engine oil will take a bunch more work. Hopefully it’s just an engine gasket issue. The timing cover gasket is a good place to start.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Update:
1) I drained my transmission today (I need to replace the pan gasket anyway) And all the fluid looked clean and unharmed. Whew. I will drain some more out tomorrow after she has time to settle, and I will drain out the torque converter as well. I am going to buy an external transmission cooler tonight. any recommendations? It's a two speed Mile-O-Matic / Ford-O-Matic / Cruise-O-Matic.
2) Should I drop the engine oil pan to help clean out some of that watery oil? And do I need to worry about the watery oil rusting anything?
So Far I have taken the oil pump apart and am letting that drain, I have poured some fresh oil down the rockers to help flush out some of the nasties, and have had the drain plug out since the incident to allow for everything to flow out.
3) I need to add as well, the rocker's did not have their gaskets when I did this flush, so there is a possibility that water got in through the gasketless valve covers. I thought I did my best to not allow any water in, but I am unsure of myself now. Is there any way to test if my gaskets are broken without taking everything apart? I was thinking of doing a flush one more time, but this time using low water pressure and seeing if any water pours out the oil drain plug. But my fear is that if it does start pouring water out the oil plug, then I definitely will start rusting stuff up. Thoughts?
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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I’ll suggest that while the oil is drained from the engine, refill the radiator with water and put 10-13 psi at the cap. I have a pump up cap tester that I use for this. Then with the oil pan drain plug still out, see if any water comes from the pan. I’d leave the pressure on at the cap for at least fifteen minutes. If there is indeed a significant internal water leak, it will be difficult to maintain the pressure and any water getting past an internal seal will start flowing reasonably quickly. If you do get water out of the drain pan, then the next thing to do is determine where it’s leaking from. Timing cover is still on my short list of places to look first.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Ted (5/15/2013)
I’ll suggest that while the oil is drained from the engine, refill the radiator with water and put 10-13 psi at the cap. I have a pump up cap tester that I use for this. Then with the oil pan drain plug still out, see if any water comes from the pan. I’d leave the pressure on at the cap for at least fifteen minutes. If there is indeed a significant internal water leak, it will be difficult to maintain the pressure and any water getting past an internal seal will start flowing reasonably quickly. If you do get water out of the drain pan, then the next thing to do is determine where it’s leaking from. Timing cover is still on my short list of places to look first. I am going to try this method tomorrow, here's hoping!
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Well guys, I decided to tackle the transmission today. Here are a few problems I've had:
The drain plugs on the torque converter seem stuck, I could not get them free for the life of me. I'm going to keep trying, but does anyone have any suggestions for methods on getting them loose? I know I'm going to need new ones to put in, since the old ones are already rounding out.
I got the pan off the transmission and did find a bit of coolant, but not a whole lot, and it didn't seem to have mixed with the fluid. I think I can flush everything out okay. But in taking the pan off I found this:
Anyone have an idea what this is? The transmission seemed to shift fine when I was running a month ago.
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By Jeff - 12 Years Ago
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Was the speedometer working? It's had to tell the size of the item but it looks somewhat like a speedometer driven gear.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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The speedo was working
Here are a few videos inside the transmission and engine:
Engine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iz8Qr4Jl2M
Tranny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNm5w5nh-Bg
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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That's probably an old one that was replaced by a PO after it self destructed.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Well I put about 10 PSI in the radiator today and didn't get any visible leaks coming out the crank case. I do have quite a few in my radiator now, so it would lose pressure over a few minutes, but I just kept pumping it up.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Here are the results of the run today: Still milky, not a milky as last time though. See for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eXSzu-nMOA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VnLiO-uHtc
Could this just be residual?
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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The video of the engine running does not show an excessive amount of moisture being present. If it is just residual moisture, then it is expected to clear itself up after running the engine at temperature for awhile. Be sure to keep an eye on the oil level itself and insure it’s not growing.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Well guys, out of curiosity today, I pulled the drain plug to see how much water was sitting at the bottom of the oil pan. I felt it was a lot, and it was pure water too, no antifreeze. Here is a video of what I pulled out of her. Keep in mind this is fresh oil and she only ran for about 10 minutes or less. (Disreguard the crud at the very bottom, that was already in my drain pan.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biu9ThHmyz4
Oh and when I drained the coolant the other day, I didn't find any engine oil in it. Seemed okay.
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Any water being present is not good. I'm assuming you don't have anti-freeze back in the engine yet?
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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It does have antifreeze at the moment. I had reflushed the block and filled it with fresh oil and 50/50 antifreeze.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Hey guys, I took the timing cover off today. Hopefully this solves my oil in water problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knykjmteuEk
Does the timing chain look too loose to you guys?
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By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
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A leak around the water passages in the front cover would be a problem. As far as the timing chain goes it would be silly not to change it while you are there. It could run for a long time as is and it could jump teeth tommorrow. Why take the chance. Chuck
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By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
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Not trying to be a Smart A$$ but I believe Jeff mentioned the timing chain cover in second post of this thread, a month ago...
The timing chain is looking a little worn, I'd replace it.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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The Master Cylinder (6/30/2013)
Not trying to be a Smart A$$ but I believe Jeff mentioned the timing chain cover in second post of this thread, a month ago...
The timing chain is looking a little worn, I'd replace it.
No worries. I work slowly, I removed it because he and many other suggested it. And buying a new chain as I type.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Here's a thought: The road draft tube gasket is bad on my engine. Could the water have gotten in from there?
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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On the topic of timing sprockets, here's a video of mine that I removed today. Do they look too worn?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JzdvHWVRI0
And while I have all of this off, are there any other seals to replace? Here are a few photos of the area:
And Happy 4th of July!
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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Heres an update, finally got her running again last night. I ended up taking the harmonic balance off, the timing cover off, replacing the timing chain and sprockets, cleaning and degreasing all of the sludge in there, painting up the cover and oil pan and such, rebuilding my balancer and reinstalled everything. As this went on I also replaced my intake manifold, cleaned and painted my valley cover replaced my transmission fluid and added a cooler, and replaced the radiator. So, yeah, took my about 5 months but was completely worth it.
So far not much water in my oil (See last paragraph)
I'm thinking the water in the oil problem was my fault. Probably got in through a busted road draft tube gasket in the valley cover when I flushed the block with a hose. Man I feel stupid.
Anyway, as she's been running the past few days, I've noticed very small trace amounts of "milky" oil on my dipstick. Not much, but it's there. Is this the residual contaminated oil that is being flushed out of orifices by the new oil? I have to say, I'm pretty paranoid. But overall the oil looks very clean and healthy.
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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'59Edsel (10/14/2013)
........ Anyway, as she's been running the past few days, I've noticed very small trace amounts of "milky" oil on my dipstick. Not much, but it's there. Is this the residual contaminated oil that is being flushed out of orifices by the new oil? I have to say, I'm pretty paranoid. But overall the oil looks very clean and healthy.Do you have a PCV valve? If not, then you may be seeing some condensate buildup which a PCV valve system will help to mimimize.
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By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
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No, no PCV for this set up, but if it will help then I guess I'll look into getting the parts to install one. Here are photos of what's there as of now:
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