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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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So I have a 56 with a 272 and I noticed no oil is going to the rockers.. at all.. Pulled the rockers off and cleared out the tubes, blew air in the holes in the head and I can hear it blowing through. Put it all back together and still nothing. So I pulled the heads and as far as I can tell its all clear. Now I'm thinking about pulling the cam and taking a look. I don't get it. Any ideas or help would be great.
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By Rono - 12 Years Ago
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Is this a new development that has just started? Were the rockers getting oil in the past? Is it a fresh rebuild and is neither side getting oil? Give us more info and maybe we can provide some options.
Rono
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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I just bought the car but from the looks of the dried up oil under the valve covers Id say its been this way for a little bit. Not a rebuild. Both sides are dry and not getting oil at all.
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By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
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Did you check to see if your getting oil when the rocker shafts are off? Little late with heads off. Try spinning it with the heads off to see if your getting oil out of the passage. Could be you rocker shafts are plugged.
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By The Horvaths - 12 Years Ago
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Does the oil pump create decent pressure? If so, the center cam bearing may have spun enough to close off the oil passage to upstairs.
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Any idea what kind of oil pressure the engine has? If there is no gauge and just a light, then install a gauge and see what if present. I suspect the oil pressure is low but it could also be a center cam bearing issue where the bearing material has worn or pressed down to the point that it is closing up the groove in the camshaft thus shutting off the oil flow to the topend. Spun cam bearings in these engines are extremely rare but being installed incorrectly is not.
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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I have an oil gauge and it reads about 80. I pulled the line off the pump and started it and it has plenty of pressure. Ill try turning the crank to see if oil comes out somewhere. I thought about replacing the cam while I was this far but to do the bearings dont I need to take it apart from the bottom to get to the bearings?
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By Talkwrench - 12 Years Ago
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What line did you take off the pump?? did you do this before your problem .. If the seal is no good you could now be sucking air, if its the main pickup tube put a new rubber grommet on it but dont over tighten . Did you take the dizzy out and spin the oil pump that way to see if you had oil? also dont mix the rocker shafts because the oil holes dont line up = on oil..
Dont give up yet. When I first picked up my 56 from the import yard I drove it home after running it down the freeway and she started to smoke and stutter ..poor girl just made it home. I knew nothing of Y Blocks but thanks to Rick [Rick55] he came out and he showed me how to fix my problem, cleaned the rockers etc. Saved my engine, shes a little old maybe not full vacuum and leaks a bit but still keeps going no probs!
OH and dont forget pull the sump and clean your oil filter as that will be just as blocked as the rockers!!!
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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I took off the line that feeds to the oil gauge. I haven't taken anything off the pump and really looked into it because I just figured if it was shooting oil out the hole to the gauge then it would be working okay. I made sure that the rockers went back on the side they came off of and that the holes lined up. Even with the heads and everything off when I spin the crank I have no oil coming out of anywhere. Maybe ill pull the pump and clean out the filter really good. From the looks of things it's probably been a while since its been cleaned.
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By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
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Did you make sure the rocker stands were right side up? Some have an oil hole that has to line up to the holes in the block. Did you try cranking it over with the rocker shafts off? That would tell you if its in the rockers or the heads/block. Chuck
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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Yeah the stands are in the right position. Hole lines up with hole coming out of the heads. I didn't try turning it over with them off. I'll try that when I put the heads back on. I will probably replace the cam also because when I was adjusting the valves my number 2 and 3 were way off. Since that will be out I'll pull the bearings and lay new ones in. If none of that solves this problem then I'm at a loss.
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By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
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Turn it over with the heads off and see if you get oil out of the passage in the block deck.
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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Well I cranked it over with the heads off and I got nothing. No oil as usual. Gonna pull the filter and oil pump and take a look but I'm pretty sure my fix isn't going to be as simple as the filter. So cam and bearings will be replaced but my question now is how do you know if the holes on the cam bearings are lined up with the holes inside the block?
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By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
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Hate to say it but the easiest thing at this point is probably to pull the engine. If your going to R&R the cam you need to replace the lifers at the same time. And the lifters only come out the bottom. It is much easier to put them back in with the engine on it's back. Also easier to see the cam bearing position.
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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That really sucks.. stupid oil..
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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Not that I'm really in favor of it, but an outside oiler kit can be used to supply oil directly to the rocker shafts, bypassing the original passages from the cam bearings to the rocker shafts. I consider this a "band aid" solution to the problem. Also, your rocker adjustments being way off could be the result of worn rockers from lack of oil, not necessarily a bad cam.
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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I typically like to do things the right way but this outside oiler kit, how does that work? I ask because I don't really have the space or equipment to pull the engine and flip it to be able to pull the cam, lifters and bearings. When I adjusted the valves every one adjusted fine except the # 2E and #3I. when I would turn the crank the rocker would stay put while the pushrod lowered and there was almost a half inch gap between the rod and rocker. So with it at its lowest point I adjusted it to where the rockers on just those two had a .019 gap. Other than that everyone else was perfect. I did notice it ticked a little louder than usual. At one point when I first adjusted the valves I had them at .015 which is way to much and after it warmed up it started making a slight squeal sound which makes me think I may have worn those lobes. But I only ran it for about 15 mins. Just run up the street and back and then let it idle.
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By The Bat out of hell - 12 Years Ago
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" there was almost a half inch gap between the rod and rocker" what? this the way it is said,means the rocker and valve are stuck and not moving=bad;or hope I'm just not reading right.
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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Yeah. I went through the sequence to adjust the valves and when I got to the last section and on the number 2 and 3 cylinder, when I adjusted the ones it called for and then hand cranked it back around I could watch the pushrod on #2 and 3 either I or E, whichever I was on at that time, lower and the rocker stayed in place creating a large gap between the two. Not good?
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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It sounds like you have some valves stuck open, and if you adjusted the valve clearance with them stuck open and then run the engine, it is likely you now have some bent valves. A compression test is in order.
The outside oiler kit taps into the oil gallery on the lower left side of the engine, often by a tee fitting at the oil pressure sender, and by the use of some 1/8" copper tubing, carries oil to the rocker shafts. The kits haven't been produced in years, but occasionally they show up on the inline auction sites. You can make your own kit, I described a method to do this on an older post.
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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I have to put the heads back on to do the compression test don't I? Ugh, then if its bad I have to pull them back off. Do you have the link to that post about the kit?
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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I did a valve adjustment by the book one time, something like "turn the engine, adjust the exhaust for cylinder x and intake for cylinder y, turn 90 degrees, adjust intake for cylinder z..." I misunderstood the steps or the book was wrong but after I completed the sequence, I noticed some were very loose. Now I just do intake and exhaust for one cylinder at a time.
If a valve is sticking open, you may be able to see it. I have a set of heads on the shelf with some valves stuck open and others closed and it is apparent. It's something that can happen when an engine sits.
Was the engine running when you bought the car?
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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Thats how I set mine. I did so many, turned the eninge 180 degrees, did some more, turned it again at 270 or whatever and finished it. The engine was running when I got it but not so great. I found it was out of time and it was a tooth off on the distributor. Fixed all of that and ran alot better. Went to adjust the valves and found the oil issue and now the two valves that have that big gap. Heads are off so I may look closer at the valves today. I just want oil to the rockers and everything working well. Ugh.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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Oh, I thought the heads were back on. You can easily check for stuck or bent valves with the heads off.
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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For now, think about how you want to address the oiling issue. If you want to fix it properly, you need to tear the engine down a little further to investigate the issue.
Since you don't really have the space or equipment for the job, you can install an external oiler.
Or, if it really won't be driven much, remove the valve covers once a week and manually oil the rockers. The springs allow you to slide 6 of them out of the way to oil the shaft. The end rockers can't be moved as easily. Just squirt oil on them. This will get you down the road until you can rebuild the engine and properly address the issue. I did this for years until I was able to rebuild the motor. Trips were short, no highway use, but it worked and the wear wasn't good, but it wasn't as bad as I expected once I had it apart.
Regarding a potential valve train issue, since you do have the heads off, now is a good time to get an idea of the condition of the cam. You can use a dial indicator to get a pretty accurate measurement of the lobe lift. Once the heads are on, it is not nearly as convenient to check this. If one or two are significantly different than the rest, then there probably is an issue with the cam and/or lifters in which case, to change the cam and fix the oiling problem all at once is a good course of action.
Whatever you choose to do, make sure the oil passages are as clean as you can get them before you put the heads back on.
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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I guess I have some thinking to do. I wanna say not pull the cam but then again if the bearings have moved then that would be my oil issue. I'll have to think on it. It's apart and would be easy to just go ahead and do the came while I'm this far. Goodness..
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By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
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One type of cam has oil holes that line up as the engine turns the other has a groove around the cam that feeds oil all the time. Sometimes the grooved type will get loaded up with gunk/varnish and stop feeding oil. The only way to check for this is to pull the cam. As mentioned this is better done with the block out of the car. Did you check the oil passage in the head where it has a "dog leg" in it. Its mostly flat and can get clogged. Also try running a stiff wire down through the oil passages in the block to make sure they are clear. If they are then its probably a cam or cam bearing problem. Chuck
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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I know the oil hole in the heads are clear and in the rocker stay. In the block I took a wire down through the hole but it came to a firm stop quite a ways in. I assumed it was hitting the inside. Is it possible at all to do the cam and bearings with the engine still in? Gotta be a trick somewhere.
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By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
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You would have to come up with a way to hold all of the lifters to the top of their bores. Its been done with sightly modified wooden clothes pins. Cutting a curve in the faces to more completly clip onto the lifter. Its possible some of the more modern office clips would work. Problem is if you drop one its nearly impossible to get it back in with the crank, rods and cam in the way. If you manage to hole them up then you will need to pull the radiator and possible the grill to get the cam out.
You may be able to rent or borrow a cam bearing installer from one of the local parts stores. If the cam and bearings are bad you need to remove them all including the last one in the block that is behind a freeze plug in the back of the block above the crankshaft. If reuseable you would need to get the tool into the center bearing and rotate it to line up with the holes (or groove). You would probably need to remove the front cam bearing to get to the center one or get it out.
This is by all means not a simple job and if the oil flow problem has been there for a long time there may be other bearing damage. I would at least pull a couple of main caps and rod caps to check the condition of those bearings.
The add on oil system taps off one of the oil galleys (plugs in line with the oil pressure gauge fitting) and carries oil under pressure from there to a Y fitting that carries oil into the rocker covers. The better ones have a hollow valve cover retaining stud that allows the oil to enter the rocker shafts and oil the rockers per original design. Easily done with the engine in the car and would be a temporary fix for your problem.
Chuck
  
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By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
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MoonShadow (9/11/2013)
Problem is if you drop one its nearly impossible to get it back in with the crank, rods and cam in the way.
Chuck
I'm thinking it would be near impossible to drop it in the first place with the cam still in!!! ha,ha 
Sorry, Chuck. Just having some fun...
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By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
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MoonShadow (9/11/2013)
The add on oil system taps off one of the oil galleys (plugs in line with the oil pressure gauge fitting) and carries oil under pressure from there to a Y fitting that carries oil into the rocker covers. The better ones have a hollow valve cover retaining stud that allows the oil to enter the rocker shafts and oil the rockers per original design. Easily done with the engine in the car and would be a temporary fix for your problem. Chuck
If you're TEMPORARILY going to go this route when we used to do this we would flip the drivers side rocker arm shaft around so the copper tubing goes in the back stud (like the passenger side) so it isn't so noticeable. Run the copper tubing behind the engine instead of over the top like in Checks pictures. The oil doesn't care which end it goes in. Just remember to flip it back WHEN you fix it correctly.
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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So heres a question.. Heads are off and I noticed on the very front intake manifold hole on the head it has a rubber plug in it? Is that there for a reason or did I miss something?
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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The front hole should not have any plug. An intake manifold bolt threads in there. The very rear hole should have a short bolt in it to plug the hole.
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By aussiebill - 12 Years Ago
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AKempf (9/11/2013)
So heres a question.. Heads are off and I noticed on the very front intake manifold hole on the head it has a rubber plug in it? Is that there for a reason or did I miss something?
It would be rear hole on intake side that usually has short bolt in it, that plug may be there to stop any oil splash from p/rods.
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By AKempf - 12 Years Ago
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Ha.. I wish I had some oil splash. This is my luck. engine sounded great. stupid cam bearings. Thinking I'm either going to just do the external oil line fix or just take the valve covers off like once a week and oil them. I mean it's geared low, I'm not going to be going on long trips or anything just staying local. I'm in the process of having a big garage built so maybe over the winter ill pull it and go through it the correct way.. Thanks for all the help though, you guys helped me out alot.
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